Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 24, 2014, 05:01:53 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This BB is intended for the sole purpose of sharing conversion and bus related information among visitors to our web site. These rules must be followed in order for us to continue this free exchange of info. No bad mouthing of any business or individual is permitted. Absolutely no items for sale are to be posted, except in the Spare Tire board. Interested in placing a classified or web ad, please contact our advertising dept. at 714-903-1784 or e-mail to: info@busconversions.com.

   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Is he stretching the truth?  (Read 3379 times)
Slow Rider
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 669




« on: March 08, 2008, 05:41:09 PM »

There is a guy selling a 1986 LAG with a C10 and a 6 speed stick on the bay.  He is claiming 12-13 mgp.  He says at 75 mph you get 13 on the highway and then 12 around town?  He also states you have a lot of power with this set up.

Is he being........ahh     overly optimistic

or

Can you really get that kind of fuel mileage with that setup?

Just curious,

Frank
Logged

The MCI has landed..... We are home.
Dale City Va.  Just a southern suburb of DC
Yes I am a BUSNUT
1976 MCI MC8
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2008, 06:03:05 PM »

uhhh, I would put my money on his stretching the truth at least a bit.

Now not being familiar with the Euro Lag models theis thing might be super light sticks and fiberglass which would account for a bit........

but if this mileage were an accurate representation.......C10's would be the predominant Powerplant in the motorcoach industry
Logged
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2008, 06:14:37 PM »

now I am going out of my element now:

Engine looks to be caterpilar yellow, which makes sense because Caterpilar makes a C-10 engine.

What color ar cummins engines?  Or Cummings as this on is powered with?

Engine Mis ID.......likey Can't calculate mileage either
Logged
Slow Rider
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 669




« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2008, 06:21:56 PM »

Thank you sir Wink

Frank
Logged

The MCI has landed..... We are home.
Dale City Va.  Just a southern suburb of DC
Yes I am a BUSNUT
1976 MCI MC8
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2008, 06:27:16 PM »

lets wait for confirmation as I don;t know much about either the Cummins or Cat line of powerplants.....

but a quick search came up with nothing for a Cummins C-10
Logged
skipn
Guest

« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2008, 06:35:08 PM »

 Looks more like an L10 to me    Cummins that is

 Slant valve cover and the after cooler on the head on the left side.  Smiley

FWIW
Skip
Logged
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2008, 06:49:08 PM »

I defer to Skip as he has one.

Logged
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2008, 06:49:24 PM »

Aren't Cummins typically painted red from the factory?  
Don't mean to be overly blunt, but a 40' high-profile bus isn't going to get 13 MPG.  Probably won't see 8 MPG at 75 MPH.  
That's wishful thinking.   Smaller diesels used in the new S&S pushers only see 8 or 9 on a good day.   Similar body profile, a lot less weight, and more efficient engine when compared to a bus powerplant.  

JR
Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
Busted Knuckle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6447


6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2008, 07:00:54 PM »

Well, well, well...... let's see he also say's that that POS! Is LIKE a Van Drool , or a SETRA!  Agcghgchgchgchgcough! BS! A LAG is like a YUGO! Can you say JUNK! OK now I remember when he bought that POS on EBAY quite a while back(like over a yr! I can't remeber exactly when but I do remember it!)nd several others I have seen advertised claimed that too! But I have some personal experience with a LAG & I can personally tell you that every one of them I have ever worked on or seen up close had a MAN engine and a 6 or 7 spd manual trans. Was a real dog on POWER and could barely get outta it's own way on flat ground! So I'm not saying it couldn't get that kinda mileage, but it won't do it in the hills, and it dang sure ain't noth'n like a SETRA or even a Van Drool for that matter!They are cheaply built, parts are harder to get than anything I've ever seen! I know of 3 within an hr of me that have just become part of the landscape due to lack of parts availability and not being able to sucker anyone else into buying them! LOL! Grin  BK  Grin

Only the newer breed of Cummin's are red and my apologizes to Skip. I don't mean to personally slam his, but I'll tell it the way I've seen them up close and too personal as the owners tried to get me to either fix them or take them off their hands atprices that I had to laff at! By the way I was in the middle of typing this as the last 2 replies were posted!
Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2008, 07:10:02 PM »

lol

NJT Thats what I though Red Cummins, Yellow cats, DD 2 strokes Green with the end being silver, Reliabuilt DD's Red or post 1975 MCI's with Autos came with red, Greyish for the Series 40/50/60 engines.



Logged
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2008, 07:35:09 PM »

lol

NJT Thats what I though Red Cummins, Yellow cats, DD 2 strokes Green with the end being silver, Reliabuilt DD's Red or post 1975 MCI's with Autos came with red, Greyish for the Series 40/50/60 engines.

You got it covered... early DDs were "Alpine" green....but you forgot the "Barney" motors. Those famous late '90s New Jersey Transit purple 6V92 in-house rebuilds.... Wink
Bryce...what color were MAN engines?   Euro buses were not using American engines in '86?  Were they?  Didn't Van Hool start the Americanized powertrain with Cummins L10s? 
JR


Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
skipn
Guest

« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2008, 07:34:27 AM »

 BK,
   No offense taken.....It is all a matter of what horsepower is hooked up to what transmission.

    Cummins........Tan or black   I personally haven't seen a red one Smiley I'm sure they are out there
    Cat.............Bright yellow or the newer ones are more a golden yellow (you can figure that one {gold}en)

  I have 2 tan colored Cummins now same color as the one in question.


   Have a wonderful day
 Skip
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 07:38:07 AM by skipn » Logged
Songman
Guest

« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2008, 09:29:46 AM »

Is this the Disney bus? If so, doesn't seem likely to me that they would know what kind of highway mileage it would get or how it cruised at 75mph. Highway speeds don't apply too much when taking tourists to the Magic Kingdom.
Logged
Len Silva
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4086


Angle Parked in a Parallel Universe


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2008, 01:59:43 PM »

I think that if you put an 8' x 12' wall on the front of a Volkswagen, you would have a hard time getting 13 mpg.

Len
Logged


Hand Made Gifts

Ignorance is only bliss to the ignorant.
Hartley
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1217





Ignore
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2008, 02:08:25 PM »

I know someone that has the same model bus, It's also an 86 model
has a 6 speed manual and Cummins L-10 with a rating plate that says 270 hp.
Probably from the same source in the Orlando area.

Thier data plate says LAG Panoramic I think. This guy says Galaxy, I don't know
the difference.

I looked at the pictures and it appears identical to the L-10 Cummins coach setup.

The bay doors on the one I messed with were aluminum and the rest was fiberglass.

Lags are the poor mans economy copy version of the Van Hool. The running gear is Euro parts. Tube framework chassis and a funky front door.

BK.. If that guy want's to give me one or more of his orphan LAGs I would
take them as long as they are CHEEEEEEEAAAAAAPPPPP....

But I probably couldn't afford to have them towed...

Dave...
Logged

Never take a knife to a gunfight!
Busted Knuckle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6447


6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2008, 11:01:09 AM »

OK the Mans I've seen were 2 different colors one was a "cummins tan" and the other is a grayish color.
Back in the mid to late 90's Cummin's came out with thier big horse electronics with either a red head (475-525 hp I think if I remember right nicknamed as "red headed cum apart") or the whole thing painted red which was a 600 hp "cum a part" before that all the cummins I ever dealt with were tan.

Dr. Dave,
Had they (all were/are owned by different owners!) been giving those coaches away I'd have them sitting here stealing stuff of them, or even converting one. (provided I could get it to be reliable on the rd!) But as it is they were suckered into one of those just like a SETRA or VAN DROOL European Coaches at a lot le$$ $ales pitche$! And, well they paid way too much for them and they are trying to recooperate way too much back out off them! I had one guy tell me "I should've had it brought it to your place, for you to look at it then it'd be your problem!!" Then I asked him "well why don't ya tell me I can have it, and I'll get it towed" (and too this day I ain't figured out how or what he was thinking from the 2 different statements!) his response was "Oh I could never do that! I got too much $ in it to give it away!"
Ahh, if it was at my place and it was my problem. Wouldn't that be like giving it to me? I mean maybe he doesn't look at that way but I do! After all sooner or later he'd have to either pay me for the time spent on it, or abandon it on me (which is what I feel like he was implying), or I'd have to just file for a lein on it, which again boils down to giving it to me the way I see it! But who knows!
It is a shame that all 3 of these poor individuals were taken advantage of, but had they done there homework/research they might not have bought a pig in a poke either!

As an interesting note had an older gent stop by this AM looking for a bus to convert. I told him about the board, to which he replied that he & his wife didn't have a computer and wouldn't know what to do with it if they did! Then he went on to telling me he really wanted something like the bus in the middle (our 102A3) I told him it might be for sale at the right price, when he asked what that might be I told him I wasn't sure but probably $15-20,000. He told me oh that's way too much for my budget. So I asked what he was looking to spend, he told me he was looking in the $2-3,000 range. I pointed out the "fishbowl" of Mike Hills that is here and told him it was about that area, and already converted. He said ya but that's too small, I want a 40'er or bigger & want the big storage spaces underneath! Like the one that is started being converted over there (Mike Hill's 9). I told him I was sure Mike had about $10,000 in it since he bought it, not including the purchase price! He said "IT AIN'T EVEN DONE YET! I plan on having less than that in it when I'm done. I told him I wished him luck, but I didn't know of any over the road coaches in that price range. He said "I've found some, but one looked like it was just out of WW3, and one was a 1966 model, one is at a salvage yard and he was asking $4,000 for it but has come down to $3,000 but doesn't have a title for it, so they are out there!" Well I wish ya luck fella is all I can say!
FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 05:09:06 PM »

LOL,

That will be one of those buy a POS have a POS for years sinking money into it...then try to sell a POS for what they put in it.

Logged
Charles Seaton
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 158




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2008, 07:49:11 AM »

if $15,-20,000 is too much to pay for a sound, reliable over-the-road coach, how much does this guy figure to pay for diesel?  "Oh, now I see.  "$3.60 per gallon?   Sounds like a lot.  How about $2.50?  I can handle that."
Logged
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2008, 01:16:53 PM »

Interesting answers have come up here.

So far in the last 6 years, we've put 58,000 miles on our bus. We paid $1 for it.

if $15,-20,000 is too much to pay for a sound, reliable over-the-road coach, how much does this guy figure to pay for diesel?  "Oh, now I see.  "$3.60 per gallon?   Sounds like a lot.  How about $2.50?  I can handle that."

We bought fuel a couple of days ago for $3.809/gallon.. Now, where we are is $3.999 /gallon. We would love to buy fuel like in the olden days... $1.599/gal, but it ain't gonna happen.

Lot's of the lookers want to buy a bus because it's cheap, within their means and gives them a chance to see what their skills really are. Personally, I've learned that using a circular saw is not the way to build cabinets. That's why I'll have my boss, Phil Hendrix or Capt. Ron or even the Guy from Michigan do my interior!

It doesn't matter what you can pay for your bus/coach or how much money you can sink into the conversion. What matters is your love of buses and the love of the hobby.
We have members here that think nothing of sinking 90 or 100K in a transit. We also have members that go from day to day on SSDI or even SS making a go of it.

Too many on this board have decided that having a Skoolie or an old GMC or a Brill or a Leyland or a transit are less than desirable. Personally I think that those people are just like the ones that want to run the HOA's.

If it ain't a Prevost or at least a Liberty conversion it ain't worth crap.

If you can't afford a Xantrex or Outback or Sunnyboy inverter, it ain't worth having.

If you can't afford a Dick Wright Generator or an Onan or a Honda or even a Generac,, you shouldn't be here.

The coaches that most of us buy are in the 1 million to 3 million mile range (yeah Right)........ It ain't like your fathers Oldsmobile

Good Luck to you all!

LOL,

That will be one of those buy a POS have a POS for years sinking money into it...then try to sell a POS for what they put in it.


It's interesting that the guys and girls that advocate not using a MAN engine, or a Renk Transmission know all about either one, since they have no experience with either. The MAN engine was used in many of the transit coaches ( It was also used in the Panzer), and is still used in many trucks in the EU, AU, NZ, NL, Africa, Asia, and lower fumbuck.

Renk Transmissions have been used around the world in everything from aircraft to parking lot sweepers.

Yes, they are all hard to get parts for in the US, but the name of the game is longevity, not making some bus converter happy. Some of the Renk transmissions in Transit service have served well over one million miles with no problems.

It just depends on what you are looking for........ High dollar and top of the line or stuff that works.... whether it's an Allison and a DD or a MAN engine and a Renk or one of the others like ZF.







Logged
skipn
Guest

« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2008, 01:27:21 PM »

Dallas......sure be that way

   I resemble some of those remarks I'm just not sure which ones! LOL
   (note to self no circular saw on the cabinets)
   I did see a ZF in there somewhere  (oh boy)

 Take care
   Skip
Logged
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2008, 03:08:06 PM »

Don;t know if Dallas was directing any of his post at me ( I assume because he quoted my POS statement)

I don;t have any iddues with buying a cheap bus and making it go....but the vast majority of people who buy the 1000.00 dollar bus have stars in thier eyes...and the things will never get done or perhaps even be made road leagl and or safe.

Generally speaking, a guy like the one in question will do one of a few things.

1. never buy a bus
2. Buy a POS and never make it run or get it on the road
3. Buy a POS and make it run after putting $$ and time into it only to never do the interior
4  Buy and complete but to nobody's standard but his own....and then try to sell it at one point for 100X what it's market value really is

There are exceptions to the rule.

most of these types are totally in the dark to buses, what they cost to run and operate and maintain to legal standards

then there are those who will take a POS make in run slap a very low end "conversion" in it and be happy tooling down the road bealching smoke looking like a trailer to the next mad max movie with bay doors half ripped off, rusticles hanging from the steel, peeing oil everywhere with just about all the glass cracked

Logged
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2008, 06:27:41 PM »

 Grin Grin Grin

Nope Doug, I wasn't really pointing you out, just that the ideas of a lot of people are that if you don't have 1/2 to 1 1/2 million into it, it ain't worth havin'. amazing that I've had to show more than a few Marathon and Liberty owners how to dump the waste tank... after they called the factory and asked why there was such a crappy smell in the coach.
Logged
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2008, 07:07:20 PM »


Nope Doug, I wasn't really pointing you out, just that the ideas of a lot of people are that if you don't have 1/2 to 1 1/2 million into it, it ain't worth havin'. amazing that I've had to show more than a few Marathon and Liberty owners how to dump the waste tank... after they called the factory and asked why there was such a crappy smell in the coach.

HUH?  Dump what?  Uh-oh.   Shocked

Dallas, when are you and Bubbagal coming up through NC?? 
JR  Cool



Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2008, 07:25:15 PM »

HEY!

I got some cracked windows!

Even some with a water level between the panes....

Can I come and play?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2008, 08:03:28 PM »

unfortunately I have a coach with a cracked windo and also a thermopane with moisture
Logged
chargePlus
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 219


1951 GMC PD4103-125


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2008, 11:17:59 AM »

I don;t have any iddues with buying a cheap bus and making it go....but the vast majority of people who buy the 1000.00 dollar bus have stars in thier eyes...and the things will never get done or perhaps even be made road leagl and or safe.

My wife and I fall into the stars in our eyes category, kinda sorta. We dream of one day having the exterior closer to original than now, especially the lights, mirrors, front and rear trim. We have never driven buses for a living, but we like the look and character of the older ones, although some of the newer buses are pretty sleek, and we both lust over the NeoPlans like Odyssey with the big "living-room" front window upstairs, and they seem like fun and attract attention.

When we bought our 4103 we knew we were buying an older bus. We knew it has issues because we could see them. We bought it because we liked the look of the older buses and we could afford it. We have used it a few times, and we have discovered that there are issues(!) we didn't know about. Want to guess why we didn't know? We didn't have it inspected by anyone knowledgeable. Why not? We knew it wasn't pristine. We knew it was going to have issues. We were new to buses and in general clueless about them. Though we are reasonable car savvy. We figured it would get us home and we could work on it from there.

Well, the baby has been sitting in the driveway for a quite a while now, waiting for me to get going on it. Sound familiar? I have finally managed to take out the rear lounge (where most have the master bedroom) to expose the engine access door. While doing this I discovered some "new" issues. Imagine that. The next steps are to get the bus cleaned out and drivable enough to take over to Dean's Coach to have them go over the important systems to make the bus safe to drive on the roads. Once that is done we can start spending more $$$ to make the bus what we want. It will never show like a brand new S&S or multi-million dollar Prevost. We know that, and that's OK with us.

Our "fun" will be the work we do to fix what we can, and hire out what we can't. We'll enjoy our trips to the racetrack towing (eventually) our racecars, eventually our longer trips to various rallys to meet the people we read about on this and other boards/mailing lists.

- John
Logged

Sports Car Lover and Bus Nut
1951 GMC PD4103-125 http://www.euliss-uftring.org/DaBus
Sports Car Club of America http://www.ncrscca.com/
Mazda Sports Car Club of NC http://www.msccnc.org/
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1894


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2008, 12:36:00 PM »

I agree 100% with Dallas - to me the whole point of this hobby is to 'do your own thing'. Those people who consider it their business to tell a newbie exactly what he should or shouldn't do are potentially doing huge damage to the hobby. The worst thing that could happen to bus converting would be if it became like hot rod or Harley Davidson building, where the only way to earn respect is to slavishly follow every current trend, spend far more much money than you should, and religously incorporate all the 'right' brand names in your vehicle. Lets not go there!

I also take issue with anyone who writes an entire make or model off as a 'POS' - it's just such an ignorant thing to say. There may be good reasons not to choose a particular type of bus (rust-prone, over complex, expensive parts etc), but why not say that rather than blaming the manufacturer or model as somehow sub-standard just because it doesn't happen to lend itself to an application and a market for which it was never designed?

Jeremy

Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2008, 07:14:59 PM »

Hey...if fuel prices get much higher, we'll all be able to afford an MCI E model.  Gads I'd like that.  Even if I couldn't afford to drive it.   
Anyone that has not been inside one of those things oughta check them out so you'll know what to expect to be driving soon.  Spiral stairs, fancy dash, steerable tags, super smooth sides, big ole windshields....OOOOOOHHH!
O' well...for the time being my POS will have to do.  I've got living proof that a POS will suffice quite nicely.   
I'm going bus'n soon...no matter the cost of fuel.  The season is upon us!   Grin Grin Wink
JR
Happy Irish Day!!!  I'm doing my best to maintain the Irish traditions...drink and make Mary be merry! 




 


Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!