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Author Topic: Genset.  (Read 6395 times)
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2008, 06:37:33 PM »

Hi Chazwood,

Your a funny guy!  Grin Grin

Well, your on the right path and thats good. Genset, LP, Heat Pumps, OTR Air & Heat, and you did leave out the inverter and batt bank....?? Why?

What will you do while traveling to your destination and your kids want to watch TV, play video's, keep the beverages cold, and lighting?

Thats one thing that you will most surely add later after expierencing the above.....

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2008, 08:34:27 PM »

Chazwood- if you're near Florida, I'd check out Powertech out of Leesburg.  They have some nice fully enclosed gensets that when installed in the baggage compartments, are near silent running.  I would suggest the 10-12kw size, with 12kw my choice for the prementioned 100 amp service with both the genset and land line.   Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2008, 09:54:20 PM »

Will yo have 2 or 3 airs, and when you run them how cold do you like it?  Running 3 airs, you should think about the 10k to 12k diesel.

Whe I bo9ught mine, the footprint of the 12k was very similar to the smaller ones. 
By going up to 15k or 20 k, it would have made my space requirments much larger, and by goig smaller, all I would have saved is $ and fuel consumtion.

So partly the answer is what kind of deal you find out there when you start looking.  All this theory and planning can go out the window in a hurry when you find something that you think can work for you.
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2008, 10:51:47 PM »

... Running 3 airs, you should think about the 10k to 12k diesel. ...


Wow, Jim -- how much draw are your airs pulling?

Our 13,500 BTU/hr units pull around 1600 watts each, running full blast.  That would make 4.8kW to comfortably run three of them full-tilt.  Start-up, of course, is much higher, but (1) they generally do not all start together, (2) the stand-by rating of the generator (which is higher than the "continuous" ratings we've been discussing) should easily accommodate the start-up of any single unit and (3) that's what the load-support feature of the inverter is for, if you go that route (and this, of course, is one of the key benefits of a load-supporting inverter -- it lets you, among other things, get by with a smaller generator).

We actually have more like 55,000 BTU/hr total (~4.5 tons), although we seldom run all of it at once (the fourth unit is downstairs, in the cockpit), which still only comes out to around 6.5 kW.

BTW, FWIW, our 17kW genset burns over a gallon an hour at about half load.  I figure if we had a modern 7.5, which would be the most we could really ever use at once, it would burn about half that for the same loads.  And, if I were generator-shopping, I'd probably go down to a 6.0 or 6.5, because I certainly don't feel the need to run the battery charger full-tilt at the same time I'm running, say, all four airs.

We kept the old fuel-guzzling monster because, even at today's diesel prices, it would take a lot of hours at half a gallon extra per each to get up to what a decent generator costs.  Besides, this way we have a buddy plug, and can power another rig or two, or maybe an entire third-world country.  Grin

-Sean
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2008, 03:23:36 AM »

Hi Sean,

You have to remember one thing about RV airs, the amp ratings on the plate are determined at 80 deg. outside ambiant.

I have seen my "14amp" rated 15,000btu airs pull 22 amps on a 98 deg. day.. not uncommon!

Nick-
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« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2008, 05:07:06 AM »

    As fas as fuel consumption, PowerTech website list the 8 KW (3 cylinder Kubota) at .32 @ 1/2 load and .64 @ full load. The 8 KW numbers are consistent with our fuel use. 
    They list the 10 KW (4 cylinder Kubata) at .64 @ 1/2 load and 1.0 @ full load.  Jack
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« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2008, 05:19:06 AM »

Chaz,

If you are going to use a stackable or separate washer-dryer (vs a combo unit) then why not go for a gas dryer?  A lot easier than running the gen or searching for a 220 pole.

When I had my bus, it had a dual basement air and electric hot water and a 6kw generator.  I had a relay wired into the water heater which would turn off one AC when the WH came on.

Len
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2008, 05:57:29 AM »

Hi Chazwood,

Your a funny guy!  Grin Grin

Well, your on the right path and thats good. Genset, LP, Heat Pumps, OTR Air & Heat, and you did leave out the inverter and batt bank....?? Why?

What will you do while traveling to your destination and your kids want to watch TV, play video's, keep the beverages cold, and lighting?

Thats one thing that you will most surely add later after expierencing the above.....

Good Luck
Nick-
So that's what the inverter and battery bank is for. This may sound strange but even though I've been keeping my eyes peeled (and putting out far too subtle hints) I haven't been able to figure out what the inverter and battery bank is for, because, I just thought I would run all those things off the bus generator/alternator while I blasted down the road. Guess not huh? I mean, It had enough reading lights to rival Shea stadium, I just thought we would use all that power for my 72 inch plasma wide screen (24v?) TV.

Incidentally, early in this post I asked if anyone had the new Onan HQD all in one system and someone responded that onan will only put those systems in new units......not right. My local onan dealer just called and said he could get me the whole package for a measly $16,000. ($5000 more than I paid for the bus Shocked) If I put something that nice in my old "Basset Bingo Bus" it would probably revolt and blow a gasket.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 07:06:50 AM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2008, 06:39:25 AM »

So that's what the inverter and battery bank is for. This may sound strange but even though I've been keeping my eyes peeled (and putting out far too subtle hints) I haven't been able to figure out what the inverter and battery bank is for, because, I just thought I would run all those things off the bus generator while I blasted down the road. Guess not huh? I mean, It had enough reading lights to rival Shea stadium, I just thought we would use all that power for my 72 inch plasma wide screen (24v?) TV.

If you have OTR heat and air, I don't understand why you would run the generator and NOT use the power that's available from that big alternator on the engine (while driving). 

David
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2008, 07:05:22 AM »

So that's what the inverter and battery bank is for. This may sound strange but even though I've been keeping my eyes peeled (and putting out far too subtle hints) I haven't been able to figure out what the inverter and battery bank is for, because, I just thought I would run all those things off the bus generator while I blasted down the road. Guess not huh? I mean, It had enough reading lights to rival Shea stadium, I just thought we would use all that power for my 72 inch plasma wide screen (24v?) TV.

If you have OTR heat and air, I don't understand why you would run the generator and NOT use the power that's available from that big alternator on the engine (while driving). 

David

well? so, I CAN use the alternator to run the tv and stuff while on the road? If I could do that would I still need a battery bank?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 07:11:54 AM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2008, 08:31:38 AM »

Chazwood, yes you can use the bus alternator to power your inverter so you can have 120 volts while driving.  As soon as you shut the bus engine off, without a house battery bank you will either
1. shut off all 120 volt things
2. run down your start batteries
3. start your generator and never shut it off.

Its probably good to have at least a small house battery set for things like lights when nothing else is running.  I made it a religion to never run stuff off my start batteries. Overkill, but its nice to be able to start when you need to.  The starts are not meant to be run down much they don't handle the deep cycle stuff well and will have a much shorter life if you use them very much for house stuff.

Sean, well I made the decision to buy that generator within a week or two after buying the bus when I was hot to get started.  I really didn't know how everything was going to end up.  I was partly relying on the advice of others.  I had never even thought about solar then either.  Its true, I'd don't think I've ever really used the generator to full capacity.  But, its done, and it is handy to always have more than enough power available.  I don't think I sacrificed any square footage, as the smaller capacity units seemed to have a similar footprint.  The only downside is that its a little less efficient.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 11:03:45 AM by H3Jim » Logged

Jim Stewart
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« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2008, 09:59:53 AM »

What will you do while traveling to your destination and your kids want to watch TV, play video's, keep the beverages cold, and lighting?

I have a small inverter, 500W to run lights when I do not have the genset running.  I run the genset all the time and when driving.  I spent about 5k on a 8kw Powertech genset.  It will run both A/C's no problem.  If I wanted to run an inverter to power the A/C's while running down the road, I would likely need a SW4024 or equivalent, which can run 2,500 - 3,000.  So , why am I spending 2500 bucks to not run my genset I spent 5k on?  I've never understood the reasoning that you get the inverter to not have to run the genset.  Both are going to use fuel, and the genset is likely to be more efficient.   Real gensets like the Powertech, and others, are designed to be run all the time.  If you were using a cheap generator, then I might agree you would only want to run it for a couple hours at a time. 

If you do plan on a big inverter to power the A/C's, then it is true that most bus alternators will power it.  However, that is usually only at higher RPM's, so you will need a decent sized battery bank to handle the times when you are at idle.  The genset doesn't care one bit.   
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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2008, 10:39:10 AM »

Chris, I use my inverter while parked, boondocking.  Its powered by a 600 amp hour (@24 volts) house battery set. The answer is total quiet, not to mention flexibility - I can always have power and I don't have to spend 3/4 gallon an hour to do it.  Mostly I don't run it at all, so I am saving lots of fuel.  Its one of the things that sold me on the solar - its totally quiet and vibration free.  Not taking away anything from my Wrico generator with remote radiator and quiet box- its is very quiet for a 12k generator.  Just not nearly as quiet as not running at all.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 11:03:12 AM by H3Jim » Logged

Jim Stewart
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2008, 10:53:47 AM »

You have to remember one thing about RV airs, the amp ratings on the plate are determined at 80 deg. outside ambiant.


Nick,

My figures are measured actual, not nameplate (which is actually higher).

-Sean
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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2008, 11:01:11 AM »

...  I don't think I sacrificed any square footage, as the smaller capacity units seemed to have a similar footprint.  The only downside is that its a little less efficient.


That's what we decided, too.  It was clear we would not save any money by downsizing -- in fact, it would cost us several thousand to get a smaller unit, even considering whatever we could get for our old one on the open market.  So I started to look at how much space and/or weight we could save by downsizing it, and the answer was pretty close to zero, so we just kept it.  We spend a bit more on fuel for it, but, as I said, it will be a long time before we catch up to what it would have cost to replace it with a smaller one.

-Sean
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