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Author Topic: Well, Should i give up the dream of a Bus..  (Read 4595 times)
Stan
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« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2008, 07:28:15 AM »

The US will be dependent on foreign oil for many years because the majority of citizens belong to the NIMBY (not in my backyard) group. When a company proposes any kind of energy development, they first have to jump through multiple levels of government department approvals and then the lawsuits start by the protesters. Only companies the size of Exxon-Mobil have the financial resources to follow this to the end and even then almost all never get built.

The environmental groups each have their own agenda. While one group wants wind power, another group opposes wind power because it kills birds, is visual pollution and makes objectionable noise. The same holds true for every kind of new energy source, not to mention all the old ones (nuclear, hydro, clean coal etc).

If you are a company in the energy business, all you can do is take the path of least resistance and pass the cost on to the customer.  I don't suppose any of you have noticed the increase in electrical rates to cover the $$$ spent to update power plants or the cost of natural gas that is being imported in refrigerated tankers. 
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kyle4501
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« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2008, 10:36:40 AM »

Re: Well, Should i give up the dream of a Bus..

If you are willing to give up that easily, then yes, you probably should.  Shocked



Personally, I don't care what the fuel costs, it's just part of the total cost & it too is taken into consideration when planning trips.

Europeans have been paying in excess of $5 per gallon for years . . . You HAD to have seen this coming!

The investors are soon to see their bubble burst & they will again, move onto something else to 'invest' in only to distort it's market value also. I wonder if they are the same idiots that bought 'investment' houses only to realize they paid way, way too much when that bubble burst?
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2008, 06:37:15 AM »

Speaking of NIMBY...  Ted Kennedy has opposed a wind farm offshore from Nantucket for years "because he does not want to disturb the pristine environment."  Of course, that rings just a bit hollow when he is caught dumping diesel fuel in the same area...

http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2008/03/13/kennedy_dumping_oil_itno_nantucket_sound?blog=53

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belfert
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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2008, 09:46:39 AM »

Europeans have been paying in excess of $5 per gallon for years . . . You HAD to have seen this coming!

No, I did not see this coming.  Diesel was just under $3 a gallon around Oct 1st of last year.  Now, most stations are at $4.  That is a 1/3 increase in just over 6 months.  Certainly, I knew we would hit $4 eventually, but I was expecting it to take maybe two years, not 6 months.

Comparing USA pump prices to Europe is comparing apples to oranges.  Now, if we stripped the tax off on both sides that would be a fair comparision.  I suspect we would find the prices to be fairly close.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2008, 09:52:01 AM »

Some good news for a change.  Oil is down to $105 a barrel, but who knows if that will stick for long.

I did notice that gas prices locally went down about 10 cents, but diesel just keeps going up and up.  All my vehicles are diesel so I am really hurting.  My father's minivan gets 22 MPG and my 33 MPG diesel car costs only about 1 cent less per mile for fuel than the minivan.  I've seriously considered getting a high MPG gas car instead, but I suppose gas prices would spike as soon as I did that.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Charles Seaton
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« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2008, 10:05:18 AM »

Just heard an interview on an overnight trucking show hosted by Steve Somers on WLW 700 AM in Cincinnati.  He interviewed a gentleman by the name of Lindsey Williams who spoke volumes on the price of oil and where it is headed.  Can you envsion $150 a barrel.  Well, two years ago I couldn't either.  But, now...  He mentionend an oil reserve called Gull Island which was discovered by Atlantic Richfield, whose executives said the field has tremendous reserves butwould not be exploited until they got their price. ($150 a barrel?)  Is this all a late-night "Art Bell" conspiracy theory?  Who knows.  But it was two years ago on the Art Bell show that a guest said dump dollars and buy gold.  I said "whatever", turned over and went back to sleep.  Who Knew.

As far as getting rid of the bus. No, oil would have to go a lot higher and at those prioces no one would buy it.  However, I wouldn't buy a second.  But if someone gave me free a Scenicruiser....
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kyle4501
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« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2008, 03:48:23 PM »

Sorry, I still think that if you didn't see the $4+ per gallon coming sooner rather than later, I don't think you were paying attention to what is going on in the world around you.

The way I see it is if Europeans are paying in excess of $5 per gallon, then it is no small stretch to realize that is what people will pay. It ain't apples & oranges to me. It is people paying what is charged. You want to blame it on taxes ? ? ? Blame it on whatever you like! Cost to manufacture has very little impact on actual selling price (if it cost more to manufacture than it will sell for, then it ain't made, simple as that- unless the gubberment subsidizes it - like they did with ethanol. Do you think Bill Gates made his $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ by selling at a small profit margin? Heck NO! He charged what the market would bear & used clever marketing to con us into forming lines to pay too much). If sufficient demand is present, the asking price will be met. Everyone wants a deal. If there is no competition, the seller sets the price that moves the amount of product they want to sell. If competition moves in, the price has to drop if they want to continue that volume of sales.

Proof of that is even with the recent rapid increase in price, there has been no significant decrease in traffic!

When the price reaches the point where people stop buying it (or at the very least, make significant reductions in how much they buy), then that will be the threshold of 'excessive pricing'.

We, as a whole, got complacent with the low price. Now that it's going up, some are whining about it.

As for me, I enjoyed it as long as it lasted. And, I have changed some of my habits. I'm not driving out for lunch, I consolidate errands to coincide with other trips. I sit in the car reading back issues of Bus Conversion for an hour while waiting on the kids - vs driving home & then driving back. Still hard to find someone to carpool with as most don't think the hassle is worth the bother . . . yet.

Just my opinion . . . . Roll Eyes
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« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2008, 05:48:43 PM »

Kyle.....Germans,  Brits and many others  have been paying $3.50 plus since I was stationed there in the mid 50s. Most walked or rode bicycles.  They also paid $5.00 + per pound for Coffee......far as I know, they "make do" and are not, probably, as into keeping up with the Jonses as are we.  Not many "slums" in Europa.

Doubt seriously they trade in a car every year or two,especially stilll owing  a whole bunch on it... and from my experience with them (I married a German) would almost NEVER spend beyond means.  Exceptions, of course, but the average person on the street knows a lot more about how to keep their lifestyle in order than do we......in short, credit card debt, foreclosure due to "overbuying",  repossession, etc. 

Note, it didn't take Mercedes Benz long to get rid of the mistake they made a few years ago.  Back to basics, I suppose.

FWIW  Smiley
RCB
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« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2008, 06:03:09 PM »

I guess we in our house shouldn't complain, we own all of our vehicles and toys outright and when so many others around us were selling their homes and moving up into McMansions we opted to stay in our modest little home which has tripled in value in 13 years. There are only two of us plus the critters anyway but I would love to have more garage and living space. Notice I put the garage first?  Cheesy
Aside from student loans and misc credit cards we don't really owe too much but I just don't understand the fuel prices and that's what ticks me off. I mean, I'm ok with raising the prices if you must but at least tell me the truth as to why, nobody likes being played for a fool which is what everyone thinks is happening.  Yeah, I've been expecting a jump for years now but not so much nor so quickly and especially not right after I buy a hulking diesel guzzling bus!!

I guess it's about priorities, we probably will not take the boat out much this year but I definitely hope to take the bus!!
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« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2008, 06:33:10 PM »

I have been quiet on this but after all the responses I guess my weird perspective just may fit in.

What we need a troupe of lawyers like the kind that went after big tobacco ( now remember they will get paid and we will get nothing ) to sue the sierra club -- greenpeace -- and all the other organizations that have prevented the development of good energy infrastructure and energy development.

By effectively bankrupting those organizations that hinder economic development and growth they may get out of the way and let us do what it is americans do. Build stuff and make things.

HEY Damn it over seven years later and the WTC is still just another dream we can't build a runway for an airport because of some mouse --- we are effectively paralyzed by an incompetent bureaucracy and are incapable of accomplishment.

The bigger half of the problem is that the government is going along with the losers that want us to move back to the farm and milk goats and live in dirt huts.

Everyone gets one vote and a chance to complain the day after -- It's the american way

I just keep swimming up stream and hope the current doesn't pick up  too much.

YMMV

Melbo
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If it won't go FORCE it ---- if it breaks it needed to be replaced anyway
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NJT5047
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« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2008, 06:34:24 PM »


  Not many "slums" in Europa.

RCB   

"Europa" has life??  Cool.  Sorry...couldn't help myself.   Roll Eyes    Whatever, wherever there's life there's slums.  Even on Europa.   Wink 

RCB, regarding slums in Europe, how long since you've visited France or Denmark?   They've got slums that ring most major cities.   The Arabs have created huge slums...essentially with their own customs, language and laws.   Polize won't enter the Shia' areas.
Germany has done a better job of 'melding' their immigrants into society.  The rest of western Euro and UK have a major 'immigrant' problem brewing within their slums...or impacted areas.     
Regarding the price of fuel in western Europe...what they charge isn't directly comparable to what fuel costs in the USA.   They are paying for all sorts of gov perks that are not available to us.  Health care, education, transit, holidays, etc.  Some part of fuel taxes go to those subsidies. 
We are actually importing fuel for about $70 bucks a barrel.  We are, unfortunately doing with our "Peso" dollars.    American dollars are not worth much in the world market.   We are overspent, and undercapitalized...for now.  This has happened before, and it'll fix itself, and we'll go on to find another greed induced financial crisis in the future.   
The overvalued Euro is almost as much a burden for them as is our almost worthless dollar to us.   
Americans must learn to live within their means.  Not me of course...everyone else!  And especially our government.   
I'm not convinced that the dollar devaluation isn't a scheme cooked up by the feds to adjust our national debt.  They've reduced it by one third without paying a dime on the principle.  We are paying a penalty for energy, but???  Do we have any busnut economists?  I tend to the creative side of economic theory.  Wink
It'll work out.  We live in a creative, rich country.  It's just been mismanaged for too many years. 
JR
 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
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« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2008, 06:40:19 PM »

I have been quiet on this but after all the responses I guess my weird perspective just may fit in.

By effectively bankrupting those organizations that hinder economic development and growth they may get out of the way and let us do what it is americans do. Build stuff and make things.

HEY Damn it over seven years later and the WTC is still just another dream we can't build a runway for an airport because of some mouse --- we are effectively paralyzed by an incompetent bureaucracy and are incapable of accomplishment.

The bigger half of the problem is that the government is going along with the losers that want us to move back to the farm and milk goats and live in dirt huts.


Melbo

MELBO FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2008, 06:52:58 PM »

I have been quiet on this but after all the responses I guess my weird perspective just may fit in.

By effectively bankrupting those organizations that hinder economic development and growth they may get out of the way and let us do what it is americans do. Build stuff and make things.

HEY Damn it over seven years later and the WTC is still just another dream we can't build a runway for an airport because of some mouse --- we are effectively paralyzed by an incompetent bureaucracy and are incapable of accomplishment.

The bigger half of the problem is that the government is going along with the losers that want us to move back to the farm and milk goats and live in dirt huts.


Melbo

MELBO FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!

I second that motion.
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kyle4501
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« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2008, 07:22:26 PM »

ME TOO!!! Grin
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Melbo
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« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2008, 06:07:05 AM »

Thank You BUT

I only have a few friends now if I was president I wouldn't have any

Melbo
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If it won't go FORCE it ---- if it breaks it needed to be replaced anyway
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