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Author Topic: Alternate Air Conditioning  (Read 2527 times)
Bosshosssport96
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« on: June 05, 2006, 10:22:02 AM »

Hello,my name is Frank Mooney,and for some time now,I've been reading all of your post,this is my first time posting.I have a 4501 that I'm doing some upgrades on,my biggest challenge is going to be supplying air conditioning to her.She came with 2 roof tops airs which I removed.I like the lines of the scenics,and don't really care for any type of roof wart so to speak.The bus at one time had central air,but the previous owner said that it didn't work that well,so he tore it out.I know of one gentleman (Frank Allen) that has a regular type of automotive set-up that runs off the engine,and I think I would like to run this type of set-up on my bus.The challenge is going to be,how can I run this type of system going down the road......boondocking....and in a campground using shore power.Any and all suggestions are appreciated,thanks.....Frank 4501-082
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belfert
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2006, 10:32:35 AM »

Dan Hard Air Conditioning at www.danhard.com has a system that runs off 11- volt and I think it runs off the engine when it is on.  I don't know any details beyond seeing it in the catalog.

Brian Elfert
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phil4501
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2006, 11:28:51 AM »

Hi, Frank

  Come look at my splits, I like to whine about how much space they take, but you should see it for yourself. I will see if I can give em a tune up and we can go desert driving.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 11:32:23 AM by phil4501 » Logged
DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 12:30:11 PM »

Frank, basement air is what you are talking about if you want the same system for driving down the road, at a campground or out boon docking somewhere in the middle of nowhere. This is based upon your desire to not have anything on the roof of your beautiful designed coach.

You will need a reliable genset, preferably diesel, to supply power to the unit(s).

I suggest you do a search of the BNO archives for basement air or split air. I think you will find tons of information already available.
Richard

Hello,my name is Frank Mooney,and for some time now,I've been reading all of your post,this is my first time posting.I have a 4501 that I'm doing some upgrades on,my biggest challenge is going to be supplying air conditioning to her.She came with 2 roof tops airs which I removed.I like the lines of the scenics,and don't really care for any type of roof wart so to speak.The bus at one time had central air,but the previous owner said that it didn't work that well,so he tore it out.I know of one gentleman (Frank Allen) that has a regular type of automotive set-up that runs off the engine,and I think I would like to run this type of set-up on my bus.The challenge is going to be,how can I run this type of system going down the road......boondocking....and in a campground using shore power.Any and all suggestions are appreciated,thanks.....Frank 4501-082
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 03:37:26 PM »

Hello Frank,

Welcome to the Board! We are glad you are posting!

You have alot of options, and with wanting a clean roofline your choices are obvious. Basement ducted, mini splits, or construct your own system.

what ever you decide, you will have plenty of help from me and many others! Like Richard said, search BNO and our forum to make an intellegent decision based on

your needs. All of our needs are slightly different too.

Nick Badame-
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 04:34:34 PM »

Check out www.tundra.cc with their A/C's that are rated for heavy duty truck useage.  They have two types-one is a basement all in one that you have to duct in and out the air.  Second is the split that has the condenser outside and the compressor and evaporator inside.
Also is Cruiseair that is a split with the compressor and condenser in the basement with the evaporator inside.  They have several evaporator designs that can fit just about any application.  I would suggest you use one 13,500-15,00btu unit for the lower mounted close to the driver's seat so it'll blow on you when driving, and two for upstairs.  I have three roof tops (just have an ugly old transit, not the classic like you have) which would be the same since mine is also 40ft and insulated with 2.25" of blown in insulation.  Normally two will do the trick, but have three just incase.  My 10kw Diesel gen runs all three just fine with some juice left over.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
belfert
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2006, 04:36:52 PM »

what ever you decide, you will have plenty of help from me and many others! Like Richard said, search BNO and our forum to make an intellegent decision based on

your needs. All of our needs are slightly different too.

Nick, what do you know about building a road air system using a Sandeen compressor and an evaporator (or two) and condenser from some place like Dan Hard?

I would really like to do this, but Dan Hard suggested parts that added up to about $2,000.  I can't really afford another $2k right now after I decided to blank out some windows and replace the rest of the windows.  I don't think a smaller A/C compresser would take as much fuel as the generator and the driver would have adequate A/C.

Brian Elfert
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Bosshosssport96
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2006, 05:45:38 PM »

Here is what I have,the Scenic that I have is already converted,my basements are pretty much full at this point and time.I have an  8k onan diesel generator on board.To do anything to a converted coach is difficult to say the least.Lets say for example I install an automotive set-up in the bus,with  evaporator up under the dash with vents  and under the  dinnetts seat with vent,is it possiable to run this compressor off of an electric motor??.How big would the compressor have to be,and how much horsepower would the electric motor have to put out,and what size converter would I have to have.thanks again.....Frank.
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2006, 07:56:19 PM »

Brian,

Here is something that we have done for a friend of mine. Find a mini shuttle bus in a junk yard, 12 to 15 passenger is perfect. They will most likely have the

Carrier Transit Cold system in it. This system has a ceiling mounted evaporator with a very efficient dubble shafted 12v blower. The condencer will be a under belly

mounted 12v 3 fan unit.  And of course the engine driven compressor. You can obtain theese componets for around 2 to 3 hundred dollars or less.

Than any extra high PSI hoses you may need, cost of recharging the system, and your labor.

In short, this system is a perfect size for a family in a 40 ft. bus while driving. Dollar for dollar, you can't get a sizeable system for less money that works.

Hope this helps-
Nick-

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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2006, 05:04:44 AM »

Hey Frank,
Do you have room to belt drive a automotive A/C compressor off the genset? If so you would have A/C whenever you needed it without running the main engine. Your electrical needs aren't likely to be that great since you aren't running elec A/C compressor, so you probably won't overload the generator engine.

If I remember from shop class, a car's A/C compressor can use 15+ hp.

As far as what size electric motor is needed to drive a compressor, what size was used on the roof tops?

Good Luck,
kyle4501
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2006, 07:46:07 AM »

As far as driving a car/truck type belt driven compressor by an electric motor, I tried that with my truck sleeper A/C.  I had a 4.0 Onan gas gen that would barely start the 2hp elec motor without a load.  Then would engage the compressor.  In a nutshell I had to hook the compressor through the radiator fan relay.  So when the head pressure got to the point that would usually turn on the radiator fan, it would interrupt the compressor to allow the pressure to come down.  It ran OK, but still wasn't that great-so eventually bought a 6.5 Onan gas commercial gen (the truck was designed for gas-this before the nice Kubota/Yanmar/Izusu types were popular) with a PTO shaft out the gen side, made a mounting for the compressor and ran it straight from the engine.  Now that would freeze you out.  Talking with Red Dot (who makes A/C's for most of the big trucks) when they set up an A/C system for a complete electric mining equipment (roof tops are not powerful enough when dealing with both outside heat and heat from the equipment), they used a 5hp electric motor to run the Nipon type compressor. 
If you're running the big 6 cylinder GM type wable plate compressor (looks like a 6" pipe about 10" long), yes that can take up to 15hp to power.  I've seen many a full size rear engine school bus that uses two of these compressors (I think Red Dot calls these the T6 compressor-go to Red Dot site) with two 25,000btu evaporators inside to cool the entire bus!  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Bosshosssport96
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2006, 06:58:18 PM »

I want to thank you all for the info......Frank
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