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Author Topic: another lesson learned  (Read 4680 times)
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Will & Wife
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2008, 07:35:39 PM »

I think the snatchem strap was the forerunner of todays bungy jump cord. We used them frequently in the 70's. I was yanking a buddy out of a muddy swamp one time when his front bumper came half off and the strap slingshotted back through my front windshield. Other than that one mishap, we swore by them. It seemed as if you could pull anything out of any place or situation so long as one or the other of the vehicles can move back and forth a few feet. PP
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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2008, 08:08:26 PM »

Rule #1 bus's are not off pavement vehicles.

 The general mind of most bus nuts I have met are "stuff your rules!!"  We are more of the "to go where no bus has gone before type" Disregarding what common sense would dictate.

 I've used 4 2X8 ft sheets of  3/4 in plywood and fine crushed stone on the plywood to walk the bus out 4 times. The 5th time with the lawn being soaked and the front tires stuck in mud the rear tires would spin the plywood out. The solution was to make 4 2X2 inch X 2 ft  cleats for each piece of plywood. The cleats would bite into the mud so the sheet would not be pushed out.
 Don't make future plans for the plywood, 20,000 pounds of bus on plywood sitting on soft ground quickly turns it into scrap.
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2008, 07:44:01 AM »

There was another topic here that dealt extensivly with the tow rope subject.

If you use a tow rope of any kind, you need to either string it through a tire or at teh very least throw your coat over it to keep the flyback from hurting anything.

It really does work, I have used something similar in the soft sand at Glamis / Buttercup / Gordons Well.

Richard, you say it will stretch to twice its length.  Where can I get that rope?  Mine is 60 feet and  I bought it from a marine supply house and it stretches 15% of its length.  Good, works well, although I've not had to try to pull my 40,000 lb bus stuck to the frame. I have pulled it out when stuck about 6" down, and a 3/4 ton truck easily popped me out.

My buddy and I have used that rope and his 4wd van to pull all kinds of people out.  Some on lookers thought it was all about the van being mighty.  I didn't steal my buddy's glory by telling them what was really going on.  They are probably still trying to buy one....
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2008, 09:16:49 AM »

There was another topic here that dealt extensivly with the tow rope subject.

If you use a tow rope of any kind, you need to either string it through a tire or at teh very least throw your coat over it to keep the flyback from hurting anything.

It really does work, I have used something similar in the soft sand at Glamis / Buttercup / Gordons Well.

Richard, you say it will stretch to twice its length.  Where can I get that rope?  Mine is 60 feet and  I bought it from a marine supply house and it stretches 15% of its length.  Good, works well, although I've not had to try to pull my 40,000 lb bus stuck to the frame. I have pulled it out when stuck about 6" down, and a 3/4 ton truck easily popped me out.

My buddy and I have used that rope and his 4wd van to pull all kinds of people out.  Some on lookers thought it was all about the van being mighty.  I didn't steal my buddy's glory by telling them what was really going on.  They are probably still trying to buy one....

Jim, I have to confess that this was an estimate made by one of the onlookers when DML was being pulled out of very soft sand at Glamis. There was also a 24 ft trailer filled with sand toys in the trailer. She was completely buried in the rear with the bumper on the sand and drive and bogie tires completely buried. The only time that you could actually determine the amount of stretch is in the condition where the tow vehicle stretches the line to its maximum length and then the tow vehicle actually stops its forward motion, as in the first example below.

It took two tries on DML. The line stretched to its fully extended length and then the 1/2 ton pickup started spinning and lost all forward motion. It felt like the coach was just starting to move when my son stopped pulling.

He then backed up to the coach and used a slightly different path outside his original track. This time the line stretched to its full length and the pickup started spinning  and then everything started moving slowly forward. As soon as the drive wheels of DML arrived beyond the sand that was tore up so bad she was really on her own till we arrived at the hard pack. Truly amazing.

I purchased the nylon line at a supply house and really do not know if there is any difference in nylon lines or not.

Richard
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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2008, 10:04:23 AM »

The 15% is a very noticeable stretch, but I would not classify it as twice - but then I wasn't drunk and cheering too Shocked)

It was the rope with the most stretch that Marine World sells.  $3 plus per foot

Richard I still thank you when I go out as I know that I can get unstuck should I run into some soft sand.  I always carry that rope  1" x 60 ft
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2008, 10:19:18 AM »

The 15% is a very noticeable stretch, but I would not classify it as twice - but then I wasn't drunk and cheering too Shocked)

It was the rope with the most stretch that Marine World sells.  $3 plus per foot

Richard I still thank you when I go out as I know that I can get unstuck should I run into some soft sand.  I always carry that rope  1" x 60 ft

One further thought that might help others to understand how this works so well.

In the first example I gave where the tow vehicle stopped completely at the end of the line stretch, an amazing thing happened. Even though the trucks wheels were madly spinning in the sand trying to continue forward, the energy stored in the line actually started pulling the truck backward for several feet. This confirms that a great amount of energy is actually stored in the stretched line.

Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2008, 10:23:28 AM »

Jim, and Richard, Check out http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/rope/rope-3strand-manila.html#C

look for item #80064TWNPFT 1" diameter, 22,600 strength $1.86/ft.

Or item #80096TWNPFT 1 1/2" diameter, 53,000 strength, $3.92/ft.
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2008, 11:36:51 AM »

After sinking to our hubs in soft mud at a Pennsylvania state park, we opted to go a different route.

We purchased the heaviest-duty tires available, and are even in the process of going to the next larger size (from 12R22.5 to 315/80R22.5).  What this does is allow you to run the tires at a much lower air pressure, and, in a pinch, it's possible to let even more air out for the soft stuff.  We run 100 psi on the drivers right now (90 on the other wheels), and I would not hesitate to drop that down to 60 if I needed to get out of, for example, sand.  (Of course, we carry a 150psi compressor, in addition to the engine-driven one, so re-inflating to road pressure, while tedious, is not a problem as soon as we're out of the soft stuff.)

The other thing we did was to change to block-tread traction tires on the drive wheels.  We've never had to let any air out of the tires, but the block treads have saved our bacon more than once.  Yes, they are a bit noisier, but we hardly notice up front where we drive.  And I know they will need replacing sooner than rib tires.  But for us, the trade off was worth it.  In addition to helping with mud and sand, the block treads give us much more confidence in the snow.

FWIW and YMMV, etc.

-Sean
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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2008, 11:45:54 AM »

Certainly not getting stuck at all is way better than trying to figure out how to get towed out!  If I did'n't have so much rubber on my duals I'd change too.  But when the time comes, I will look at those block treads.  I regularly get off road, although I go out with friends who have trucks that can pull me out if need be.  I imagine its a little more difficult to tow yourself out with your scooters Shocked)  or a passerby.
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2008, 12:20:21 PM »

Jim, and Richard, Check out http://http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/rope/rope-3strand-manila.html#C

look for item #80064TWNPFT 1" diameter, 22,600 strength $1.86/ft.

Or item #80096TWNPFT 1 1/2" diameter, 53,000 strength, $3.92/ft.


Thanks Dallas. Certainly looks like a good source. Based on my experience pulling several different rigs out, I believe the 1" is adequate. DML weighed over 40,000#.
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2008, 12:24:30 PM »

Certainly not getting stuck at all is way better than trying to figure out how to get towed out!  If I did'n't have so much rubber on my duals I'd change too.  But when the time comes, I will look at those block treads.  I regularly get off road, although I go out with friends who have trucks that can pull me out if need be.  I imagine its a little more difficult to tow yourself out with your scooters Shocked)  or a passerby.

Jim, I have a question. Have you yet used the setup that the tow vehicle is bumper to bumper with the vehicle being rescued and then accelerating to the maximum speed possible before the line goes taut?  It is a very scary situation the first couple of times but after a few times it becomes much easier.

Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2008, 12:35:06 PM »

After sinking to our hubs in soft mud at a Pennsylvania state park, we opted to go a different route.

We purchased the heaviest-duty tires available, and are even in the process of going to the next larger size (from 12R22.5 to 315/80R22.5).  What this does is allow you to run the tires at a much lower air pressure, and, in a pinch, it's possible to let even more air out for the soft stuff.  We run 100 psi on the drivers right now (90 on the other wheels), and I would not hesitate to drop that down to 60 if I needed to get out of, for example, sand.  (Of course, we carry a 150psi compressor, in addition to the engine-driven one, so re-inflating to road pressure, while tedious, is not a problem as soon as we're out of the soft stuff.)

The other thing we did was to change to block-tread traction tires on the drive wheels.  We've never had to let any air out of the tires, but the block treads have saved our bacon more than once.  Yes, they are a bit noisier, but we hardly notice up front where we drive.  And I know they will need replacing sooner than rib tires.  But for us, the trade off was worth it.  In addition to helping with mud and sand, the block treads give us much more confidence in the snow.

FWIW and YMMV, etc.

-Sean
http://http://OurOdyssey,BlogSpot.com




I agree that the best thing to do is buy the most aggressive tread possible to keep from getting stuck in the first place if you are going to be venturing out in the boonies.

Having said that, I would never venture back to Glamis or any off road location without having the emergency tow line on board. I witnessed too many off-roaders getting buried and having to call a heavy duty truck wrecker from many miles away to get them out. I do not think that it would be too difficult to get a local four-wheeler to give you a tow as long as you have a good tow line. 

Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2008, 12:38:09 PM »

The 1" line I bought is rated at 30,000 lbs or slightly more.

DML - The most we had to do is just get a rolling start.  Had to talk the driver into doing even that much. But that worked very well.

Have not had to go bumper to bumper and punch it. Whew!  But its an option.
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2008, 12:44:41 PM »

The 1" line I bought is rated at 30,000 lbs or slightly more.

DML - The most we had to do is just get a rolling start.  Had to talk the driver into doing even that much. But that worked very well.

Have not had to go bumper to bumper and punch it. Whew!  But its an option.

It is really amazing that even with a bumper to bumper balls to the wall takeoff very little or no jerk is felt in either vehicle.

Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2008, 02:50:19 PM »

any jerk, and it would do damage no doubt.  I have neither seen nor felt any jerk at all with the towing we've done.  Its almost magic the way the offending vehicle just eases right out as if it was never stuck at all. 

People spend so much sweat and tears trying to tow with non stretch rope, or even chains, and they still can't get out and do lots of damage along the way.
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Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
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