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Author Topic: Train whistle  (Read 4487 times)
chazwood
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« on: March 21, 2008, 01:00:34 PM »

When I shut down my bus, my air system would take about 5 mins. to completely and totally bleed flat. I knew I had an air leak because the whole time it was leaking it sounded like a far away train whistle. Oooooohhh,Ooooooooo......pause .....Oooohhhh,Oooooooo. Kind'a long, lonely and far away. Pretty sound. Reminded me of days gone by ...happier times.... summer days spent barefooted in the wheat fields, back behind the barn, where you could just see the afternoon sun reflecting off the tracks as they flowed off into the distance.....times when I didn't have to worry about leaking buses. Cheesy ( EDIT: disregard that last little bit as anything factual ....except the part about the leaking buses Grin)

Anyway, I knew the general area the train was coming from but was unprepared to risk my life to investigate further. (after reading all the posts, from you guys, about how many ways a bus can crush you like a bug......Overheard: Bus to knucklehead.... "You want it slow or fast, buddy?")  I finally took courage,  got under the monster and discovered something surprising......the long, lonely train whistle sound was coming from the regulator between the two back leveling valves, but not like how you would think....I was feeling around the regulator to see if I could learn anything (Hint: if you do this, wear disposable gloves....that black stuff is permanent pigment for your fingers) and much to my surprise, the leak felt like it was coming straight out of the middle of the housing of the regulator. I wiggled around , stuck my head up into the space between the rear differential and the air bags, with my head touching both (not much room....plenty scary......I tried not to think of giant nutcrackers,) to see if I could get a peek at the spot, and sure enough ,the side of the regulator had a short gash cut in it that was leaking. It was not a split.....it was a gash, by impact.

Strange.

That thing is so tucked away, it's hard to reach with your hand, I wonder what could have popped it? It looks like what a rock might do, but that rock had to ricochet around awhile before it found it's mark. What are the chances? Sad
« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 01:26:08 PM by chazwood » Logged

1983 Eagle Bus Model 10
6V92
Thekempters.com
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 01:12:26 PM »

ChazW,

to make a long story even longer, do you need one or are you ordering one from the "Price King" (MCI)?

If you could make a photo of the offending part, most of us would muchly appreciate it.

We could even tell you how much, and how long to rebuild or replace, or even send you a used one if needed.

I wonder about you guy, I walked through many a field when I was young and bare footed.. it hurt!

When I shut down my bus, my air system would take about 5 mins. to completely and totally bleed flat. I knew I had an air leak because the whole time it was leaking it sounded like a far away train whistle. Oooooohhh,Ooooooooo......pause .....Oooohhhh,Oooooooo. Kind'a long, lonely and far away. Pretty sound. Reminded me of days gone by ...happier times.... summer days spent barefooted in the wheat fields, back behind the barn, where you could just see the afternoon sun reflecting off the tracks as they flowed off into the distance.....times when I didn't have to worry about leaking buses. Cheesy

Anyway, I knew the general area the train was coming from but was unprepared to risk my life to investigate further. (after reading all the posts, from you guys, about how many ways a bus can crush you like a bug......Overheard: Bus to knucklehead.... "You want it slow or fast, buddy?")  I finally took courage,  got under the monster and discovered something surprising......the long, lonely train whistle sound was coming from the regulator between the two back leveling valves, but not like how you would think....I was feeling around the regulator to see if I could learn anything (Hint: if you do this, wear disposable gloves....that black stuff is permanent pigment for your fingers) and much to my surprise, the leak felt like it was coming straight out of the middle of the housing of the regulator. I wiggled around , stuck my head up into the space between the rear differential and the air bags, with my head touching both (not much room....plenty scary......I tried not to think of giant nutcrackers,) to see if I could get a peek at the spot, and sure enough ,the side of the regulator had a short gash cut in it that was leaking. It was not a split.....it was a gash, by impact.

Strange.

That thing is so tucked away, it's hard to reach with your hand, I wonder what could have popped it? It looks like what a rock might do, but that rock had to ricochet around awhile before it found it's mark. What are the chances? Sad
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chazwood
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2008, 01:22:22 PM »

That part about the wheat field was.....OK, total fabrication......you busted me.  Sad (I must have read something like that in a book somewhere) Sometimes I get carried away while trying to paint a visual scene. My Dad use to say "I've told you a million times....don't exaggerate"

I took a pipe clamp and a piece of rubber (for now) and slowed the leak down considerably, cuz that thing is going to be a bear to get out. I can't take a picture of it right now (my flash is busted and it is very dark up in there.)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 01:28:43 PM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2008, 01:41:25 PM »

chazwood...I appreciated and enjoyed your written description.  Kinda reminded me of Bakersfield California where at night you can hear the trains going East out of town every 30 minutes or soos.

I also have dim (muted?) memories of being 6 again and visiting my Great Uncle Frank who lived in/near Roanoke Virginia and hearing the old steam engines pulling out of town.  Sounded very cool.

Getting back "on track" (yuk, yuk) maybe your just have a..."split gash"?  Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of man, er nature which could have caused your implackable road rash damage?  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2008, 01:50:19 PM »

ChazW,

if you can't get a photo, try describing the part exactly.... Many of us may have one handy to send you, or we may be able to tell you where to get one other than MCI. Most of the brake and air system parts on an MCI, Eagle and Prevost are off the shelf items at you local truck parts dealer.

I don't have an 8 or 9 manual but you are welcome to the one I have uploaded to my website.. It's a manual for the 96A through 102C3.. both parts and maintenance. Email me for details. Most of it is relevant to the 7, 8 and 9.

It won't cost you a dime, unless you want to contribute to the "Keep This Website Alive" fund.
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chazwood
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2008, 01:58:06 PM »

Stop, you're too kind  Grin ( Edit: Opps..... not you Dallas...I meant HB of CJ ...... you squeezed a post in on me...can't type that fast.)

I do remember, when I was five, being at my parent's friend's country house where you could stroll thorough a short section of woods and emerge onto a elevated set of tracks in the middle of nowhere ( I don't know why... but I remember thinking woods were a strange place to put train tracks)

We use to put pennies on the track and stand so close as the train approached the engineer went nuts blowing his horn at us. Which is what we wanted Grin

 (There weren't any wheat fields though.....that I can remember.)

As to the part....it's a small regulator mounted right next to the passenger side rear leveling valve. (Looks almost impossible to get out.)

« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 02:18:28 PM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2008, 02:46:11 PM »

As to the part....it's a small regulator mounted right next to the passenger side rear leveling valve. (Looks almost impossible to get out.)

There is no mechanical problem that cannot be solved by brute force and ignorance Wink
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chazwood
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2008, 03:47:52 PM »

Yeah, I'm with you on that front.  Wink
This is in on of those places where you can't touch anything without getting a eyefull. I hate that. Makes you wonder how much the guy in the factory was cussin'
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2008, 05:41:08 PM »

CWOOD,
The guy in the factory was most likely not cuss'n at all,
He most likely put it in before the floor was put down.
Jim
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2008, 07:01:41 PM »

Why don't you just take the passenger side drive wheels off? Block the body and block the axle. Then you can get right in there to access all those air type goodies. At least the MC-5 is set up that way. It takes about 15 minutes to get them both off. Assume you have concrete to work on and know where to block the body and how to jack on the axle.
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Fred Thomson
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2008, 08:26:18 PM »

Hello.

A regulator in that location sounds like the one for the DD3 parking regulated supply.

where does the line come from/go to on this offending part?

On those regulators, the cost of the kit or buying a new one, the kit savings isn't worth your time and screwing around to find the casing is shot anyway.

Fredward has the answer. Working on that stuff is WAY easier with the wheels pulled off.

I found that a good used railway tie and a piece of 2x6 lumber makes a great prop for under the flat axle assembly after you get it jacked. Then once the tires are off, the right piece of wood into the bump stop on the axle and you are safe to go.

Use lots of penetrating spray, and be careful of that copper pipe....

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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chazwood
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2008, 08:29:54 PM »

That sounds like a plan. I have the "Manly Man" lug wrench, so it should be easy. Good Idea.


Thanks.

Charwood.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 08:36:43 PM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2008, 06:54:01 AM »

I crawled back under the bus to have a look-see (and let the "Manly Man" Lug wrench idle for a few minutes......to warm it up) and noticed that if I took off the big dualie whoppers, the airbags, shocks and air beam look like they might still be in the way of a good time. Is this true?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 06:57:46 AM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2008, 07:08:16 AM »

You will be snaking your arms through all the gaps, and you will be able to work upright. Our strength and agility suffer when lying on our backs, and the crap falls in your eyes.

You'll want to get as big a block into the suspension point as you can to maintain all those gaps so you can see and work through the holes. Put a block into the other side by reaching around, so it settles evening.

More light on the subject, less shadow.

Multiple trips to the tool box and the hardware store, as the nasty thing won't come out of there without a fight. Lots of dropped tools and some bleeding...

You'll be glad you took the tires off.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2008, 08:08:45 AM »

All this makes me glad my RTS has an access hatch through the floor over the rear axle (and glad that I preserved access when I built my floor).  It's not a big hatch, but enough to work through if needed.
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2008, 10:10:27 AM »

The simplest thing you could do would be to buy my house.  You would then have a nice shop with a pit to work under the bus.  Wink
Len
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2008, 10:32:04 AM »

I'm there. Get you stuff packed. Grin I'm done with this place.....I'm trying to remove a front wheel and the PO must have overtightened the lugs because the Nuts are stripping.


If it wasnt this....it would be something else.
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2008, 10:57:11 AM »

I'm there. Get you stuff packed. Grin I'm done with this place.....I'm trying to remove a front wheel and the PO must have overtightened the lugs because the Nuts are stripping.


If it wasnt this....it would be something else.

Don't forget the driver and passenger side wheels have opposite handed threades!  Don't over tighten the driver's side by trying to "loosen" them the wrong way.
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chazwood
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2008, 11:21:58 AM »



Don't forget the driver and passenger side wheels have opposite handed threades!  Don't over tighten the driver's side by trying to "loosen" them the wrong way.

What? SOMEONE TELL ME THIS GUY IS TRYING TO BE FUNNY!........    please tell me .........please tell me     .....pleeeeese tell me .......#$$@!!**##!!!


Ok....I'm better now.... that would explain that little problem. Someone point me to THAT little tidbit in the manual....That ought to be the FIRST thing they tell you ....."Humchuckin'snugglebunnies!!!!!"....opposite threads!!!!?Huh .... I'm speachless....Great.

Anyone know where I could get two lug nuts? Cry
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 11:35:05 AM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2008, 11:28:23 AM »

Nope, he wasn't kidding.  You probably better replace the effected studs too.  Even if they didn't strip, they probably got stretched, at the very least weakened.
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chazwood
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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2008, 11:31:55 AM »

Nope, he wasn't kidding.  You probably better replace the effected studs too.  Even if they didn't strip, they probably got stretched, at the very least weakened.

Weakened!? Those things are toast!!! RATS!!!!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 11:33:40 AM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2008, 11:40:34 AM »

Yup,

Lefty Licey and Rooty Tooty!

Or Is that Lefty Righty and Lucey Ti**y, hmmm, maybe not go there.

I have a few.. only $10 each for the lugnuts and $12 for the stud.

One thing for sure... your compressor and impacted wench are working right.

If you want to make your monster remover and installer last a lot longer get yourself a can of air tool oil or Marvel Mystery oil and use it often.
Your subcompact, man-hammer, being low cost will have a real problem in a short time with wear.. the tolerances aren't nearly as critical to the Chinese as they are to us. Combat the wear with lot's of oil.... oil it everytime you move to another wheel and before and after every use.

If you look at your lug studs, you may possibly see an "R" on the passenger side and a "L" on the drivers side.
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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2008, 12:00:32 PM »

Not all vehicles use left hand thread on the left, but I can tell you my Prevost does, and it sure sounds like yours does  too Cry
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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2008, 12:28:52 PM »

I want to thank you guys from the bottom of my heart. (saying goodbye has always been tough for me...so bare with me) You have all been great. You have laughed when you were suppose to.... cried when you had to.... and got serious when the situation demanded a wise head and a steady hand. I cannot thank you enough for your help...all of you.

So, it is with great regret that I tell you that I will be leaving your midst for a while. You see, when I figured out that Brian was not kidding about the opposite threads tip, I'm afraid I said some things that were very bad. Very, very bad.


I will be leaving now, to crawl on my knees over crushed walnut shells and prostrate myself at the statue in the shrine of the chapel of Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility and plead for my continuing existence, because I'm pretty sure I just lost my salvation.



Thanks for everything....I will remember all of you with fondness.


Goodbye.


Chazwood.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 12:32:45 PM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2008, 01:20:50 PM »

Personally, I think he will be back!

Jim
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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2008, 01:25:46 PM »

Personally, I think he will be back!

Jim

Yup, God is much more forgiving than a bus.
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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2008, 01:49:23 PM »

I bet he looked pretty good spinning around in the air holding onto that impact wrench! Roll Eyes
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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2008, 02:28:30 PM »

Well, I'm praying for him right now.  Chaz really knows his GOD stuff so I guess he needs help.

John
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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2008, 03:23:16 PM »

If he said what I think he said...he will be on his knees for quite a while!

At least he asked the question...and Brian was able to point him in the right direction!

My question...I have not looked...on my Scenicruser (GM) I am thinking the threads on both sides go the same way...don't they?

Chazwood, I gotta hand it to you...you had me and Dianne in stitches!  Thanks!
Jack
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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2008, 03:32:56 PM »

jackhartjr: Only you can tell what threads are on your bus. Unless you are are the original owner you never know who changed what. The only thing I am sure of is that the 4501 rear suspension under my MC-7 Combo had left hand threads on one side. It also had aluminum hubs, which I thought rather uncommon for that age.
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« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2008, 04:34:07 PM »

Personally, I think he will be back!

Jim

Yup, God is much more forgiving than a bus.

Ain't it the truth!
A man much wiser than I once told me "If God wanted to getcha, you'd already be GOT!"

Now, do I even want to ask Dallas what an "impacted wench" is?   Huh Huh

I had an impacted tooth once that was a pain..........  Huh Huh Huh
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« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2008, 05:34:59 PM »

***I bet he looked pretty good spinning around in the air holding onto that impact wrench! ***

ROTFLMAO
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« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2008, 08:38:03 PM »

Stud pilot wheel fastening systems have opposite threads on one side of the bus. These are the ones with chamfered front nuts like your car, and the two piece fasteners at the rear that fasten each dual wheel one at a time.

Hub pilot, with the built-in "washer", turn the "proper" way all the way around.

Unless, as has been noted, a previous owner has done something stupid with non-matching bits and pieces...

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2008, 08:52:48 PM »

Stud pilot wheel fastening systems have opposite threads on one side of the bus. These are the ones with chamfered front nuts like your car, and the two piece fasteners at the rear that fasten each dual wheel one at a time.

Hub pilot, with the built-in "washer", turn the "proper" way all the way around.

Unless, as has been noted, a previous owner has done something stupid with non-matching bits and pieces...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

But then to mix it up a bit more...

NJT and some other properties spec'd a nut system that used a nut with built in washer on every other lug on the wheel, while the ones in between were standard nuts. Under the washer, the nut was still chamfered also, and was a reverse thread on the drivers side.

I wasn't aware of that little fact until a couple of years ago at Timmonsville when I noticed Dave in Wilmingtons front wheels had both chamfered and washered stud piloted wheels.

I made an idiot out of myself with concern about the mounting and torque.... of course it's not difficult for me to be an idiot!

Dallas
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« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2008, 01:38:31 PM »

Dallas,

You can be justifiably proud of your "humility". Grin Huh

Thanks for the chuckle,

John
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« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2008, 05:24:17 PM »

DOT takes a dim view of mixed fasteners these days in many jurisdictions.

Mixing chamfered stud nuts with the clamping hub pilot style was done by some, but after DOT started putting them OOS, better to fit in than to keep getting buses sidelined.

Right or wrong, Busnuts don't want to attract that kind of attention!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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