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Author Topic: 4106 Power Steering  (Read 4407 times)
OneLapper
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« on: March 23, 2008, 10:58:10 AM »

Hey there everyone,

It's been a long time since I last posted anything.  I made a trailer hitch over a year ago to pull my 24' enclosed car trialer and I'm happy to say that my 4106 has pulled it from CT to Indiana, back, Canada, back, South Carolina (Kershaw), and back with zero problems.
It attaches to the lower suspension track rod brackets.  Can post pics if anyone is interested.

The new project is adding a factory power steering system to a 4106 that did not have power assist or ps.  I bought the system when I got the bus, but I haven't had time to install it.  With the help of Luke and Bill at US Coach they have gotten me the parts of the system that I didn't get when I bought this "complete" system.  That being said, I'm asking if someone can post a picture of the right spindle's power steering arm that the hydraulic power steering cylinder attaches to.  Its about 10 inches long and appears to have about a 3 inch drop to allow the right ball joint to clear the airbag I-beam.  It can be clearly seen if you turn the wheels far left and look from behind the front axle.  This is the last part that I need and I'm have a difficult time identifying the correct part.  Bill sent me an arm but it doesn't seem to be the right one.  I have the parts manuals but there are no good photos of this arm.

Some of the projects I've completed on this bus have been:

Rear suspension Radius rod bushings replaced
New muffler from universal parts (costing less than $300)
Massive tow hitch
Upgraded radiator
New starter (twice, long story)
New 4/00 battery and starter cables (custom made crimping terminal ends on with hyd hose crimping press)
Tracking down mold/mildew problem (currently working on)
Throttle cable/pedal travel stop bolt!!! (would not allow Full Throttle!  Found this issue three weeks ago!  Now I have full throttle acceleration.)

I'll be using the bus more often.  I've started a small side business organizing track events and I'm using the bus to stay in at the tracks as well as tow my car and equipment.

Thanks,

Mark

« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 11:04:58 AM by OneLapper » Logged

OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2012, 07:46:25 PM »

Hi Mark,

I realized this is an ancient post but did you ever complete the power steering install? Im trying to figure out the factory layout of the steel lines at the front axle so I can install a shepard system but would like to have it as stock as possible otherwise.

Tom P.
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Tom Phillips
PD4106-453
PD4106-2864
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93 Range Rover
87 190e-16 Mercedes
92 Jeep Comanche
OneLapper
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 06:42:03 AM »

Oh yes, installed a factory power assist system that worked really well, and just completed swapping that system out for a Sheppard system.  You might ask why.  The difference is between the systems equates to about 1" less play in the steering wheel.

BTW, you can make me an offer if you want the factory assist system.  Any offer, it's going up on eBay and Craig's by the end of the month.

Ask away.  I have lots of photos of the front axle swap and Sheppard install that I can post if you're interested.

Mark
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 11:32:26 AM »

Id really like to see some pics of how you ran  lines up to the front and how they were secured. Did you swap out the steering miter box when installing the shephard? Ive heard it has a faster ratio.

-Tom P.
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Tom Phillips
PD4106-453
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87 190e-16 Mercedes
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OneLapper
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 12:01:48 PM »

I'll snap some pictures and upload them tonight.

I ran hydraulic hoses to the front of the rear axle, then metal pipes under the bus to the front axle, then hoses to the power steering box.  I did not change the mitre box, I wasn't able to find a 1:1 box. I have the original 1.5:1 box.

Mark
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
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gus
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 02:00:35 PM »

Mark,

Your power assist wheel play could probably have been removed at the steering box on the axle by a simple adjustment. I did this on my 4104 and the systems are pretty much the same.

That being said, the Sheppard is much better.
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OneLapper
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 02:42:35 PM »

Mark,

Your power assist wheel play could probably have been removed at the steering box on the axle by a simple adjustment. I did this on my 4104 and the systems are pretty much the same.

That being said, the Sheppard is much better.

The box was/is in perfect condition. The "slop" is not actually slop at all, it's the movement of the sliding hydraulic diverter valve. That valve sends fluid to one side of the cylinder piston or the other, depending on which way you turn the wheel.  The system is essentially an open center hydraulic system when you're not turning the wheels, simple and efficient.

Mark
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
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Lin
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 05:53:42 PM »

I have power assist on my 5a and it is okay, but if you are going to all the effort of installing something new, you would probably be happier with integral power steering.  I had it on the last bus, and it was significantly better.
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OneLapper
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 08:13:32 PM »

Here are the pictures of my power steering install.....











Installing the metal pipes was the easiest part.  The hydraulic hoses were difficult to route around the all the moving parts.

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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 09:09:23 PM »

And more photos of the Sheppard install....

















How to change the steering box the hard way!!







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OneLapper
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 09:20:41 PM »

Wow, great pictures. Are those front brakes stock for the 4106?   Besides the box and pump what parts did you need to complete the swap?
Am I right assuming that is steel gas pipe on the pressure side?

-Tom P.
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Tom Phillips
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2012, 09:38:38 PM »

Pump, box, reservoir. 

I used the pipe for pressure and return runs under the bus between bulkheads.  It was much cheaper than the hydraulic hose!

Mark
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
kaptar
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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 11:00:12 AM »

I would be interested in pictures of your trailer hitch also maybe a guess on the cost of the shepard upgrade. Thank you.
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OneLapper
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« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2012, 11:37:50 AM »

Kaptar,

I'll post some pictures of the hitch Wednesday night. I'll be working on the bus that evening.  I'll say that when I posted I was building a hitch for my 4106, I got flamed for even having the thought of doing so!!  Good news is that you most certainly can put a robust hitch on a 4106, or any other GM. My hitch attaches to the lower radius arm mounts and is pre-loaded to actually push upwards on the engine craddle. Even so, I don't put more than 600 pounds static weight on it. I would think it could handle much more.  The end plates are 1/2" steel, the tube is schedule 80 wall and the center of the receiver tube is reinforced with 4' of solid 2x2" steel.

More on the hitch to come........
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 09:47:16 PM by OneLapper » Logged

OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
TomC
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2012, 02:39:01 PM »

I assume those pipes for the hydraulic lines to the steering gear are rated for 2,500psi?  I know my Sheppard steering needed a 2,200psi pump.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2012, 04:25:40 PM »

Tom, you have a point there.  On my last bus, we used steel pipe for the major run when we installed power steering.  I think we ordered the pipe based on burst pressure ratings.
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2012, 06:57:45 PM »

Mark,,

The hyd assist steering is basically mechanical so the hydraulics have nothing to do with slop or wheel play. All the adjusting is in the steering box, the bevel gear box or the U-joints.

The hyd part is piggy-backed onto the mechanical system so none of those hyd valves have anything to do with steering slop unless there is some delay in the hyd assist coming online.
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OneLapper
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« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2012, 08:23:23 PM »

Ok, sorry this is a week later than I promised.....















Hope these help!

Mark
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2012, 11:32:06 AM »

Sorry for the late thank you on the trailer hitch pictures. We just get busy at times. Thanks again.  Harry
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fortyniner
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 06:09:13 AM »

Mark, did you have to swap the steering arm to accommodate the drag link? The conversion instructions also mention the need to customize the steering prop shaft length. Was that required in your conversion?

-Tom P.
 
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Tom Phillips
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Gordie Allen
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 08:01:15 AM »

Hey Mark,
I'm fairly new to this bus conversion game.  Bought a 1956 4104.  It was converted originally in the late '80's.  I've gutted it to the skin and removed the floor.  On my list of mechanical repairs are:
1.  Replace all radius arm bushings.
2.  Replace over sized radiator with correct fitting one
I noticed in your post you've done both.  May I ask where did you get the bushings?  Are they rubber or polyurethane?  Did you switch to 2 piece bushings?  Where did you get your radiator? 
I've put these questions out on the board, but not getting any replies.
Thanks,
Gordie
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Augusta, MI
1956 4104
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OneLapper
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 08:40:36 PM »

Mark, did you have to swap the steering arm to accommodate the drag link? The conversion instructions also mention the need to customize the steering prop shaft length. Was that required in your conversion?

-Tom P.
 

Hi Tom,

When I purchased the power steering unit from Sheppard I also needed to purchase the steering arm (referred to as the Pitman Arm in the Sheppard manual) that fit the application.  The person at Sheppard knew that the arm from the 4107 with factory PS would work.  The Pitman Arm was $125 new and readily available, which made me think there's some more current application for that arm.
After mounting the power steering box in the center of the axle, I had to shorten the drag link.  I purchased a die, cut the link to size and then cut the threads into it.
I also needed to shorten the prop shaft, but not by much.  If I recall it was only 3/4" or so.  I had replaced the worn out original shaft with a new PTO shaft a few years earlier, so it was still in perfect condition, thus the cut and weld cost me $50. 

Hope this helps!  Good luck!

Mark
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 08:59:31 PM »

Hey Mark,
I'm fairly new to this bus conversion game.  Bought a 1956 4104.  It was converted originally in the late '80's.  I've gutted it to the skin and removed the floor.  On my list of mechanical repairs are:
1.  Replace all radius arm bushings.
2.  Replace over sized radiator with correct fitting one
I noticed in your post you've done both.  May I ask where did you get the bushings?  Are they rubber or polyurethane?  Did you switch to 2 piece bushings?  Where did you get your radiator? 
I've put these questions out on the board, but not getting any replies.
Thanks,
Gordie

Hi Gordie,

I used the original single piece rubber bushings and purchased them from Luke at US Coach.  Luke as them in stock and all things considered, they're dirt cheap at $11 each (maybe they were even $7 each, I forget).  One trick to installing the rubber bushings is use an air chisel to remove all the rust that's built up around the inside of the radius arm end.  It might look clean, but it's not!  After the hole is the correct size again you can use a small press to pop them in.  Pretty simple and straight forward. 

The radiator was easy too.  I brought the original radiator to a good radiator shop and told him I needed the most efficient core he could fit in it.  Boom, $1500 later the thing was pretty enough to hang on the wall!  The old timer was soooo impressed the entire radiator was made from brass, tanks, necks etc.  I think he enjoyed building it.

My engine still gets warm on a long hill, but I doubt its the radiator.  I have to check the oil thermostat/aqua stat flow thingie.  I have a spare so I thought I would test and adjust that unit on the bench and then swap the old one out.  I think my muffler is part of the problem.  Im working on that.

Good luck and fire away with any questions, I'll help out if I can.

Mark
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
RJ
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 11:04:21 PM »

My engine still gets warm on a long hill, but I doubt its the radiator.


Hmmmmm. . . Considering the owner. . .   Me thinks the right shoe needs a dietary supplement!   Grin


JK, Mark!!


 Wink
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RJ Long
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Gordie Allen
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 11:34:51 PM »

Hey Mark,
Thanks for the quick response.  I was reluctant to call Luke as he seems like a pretty busy guy and I didn't want to just badger him with questions.  I'll get the bushings from him.  I'll also ask him about a source for a new radiator.  The one I have is out of a truck and is about 6" too tall and 3" too wide. The PO put a skid plate under it as it is only about 6" off the ground after the suspension is up.  I have to be real careful picking service entrances as too steep a transition and the radiator would bottom out..  Drove me crazy thinking that I was going to rip the radiator out every time the skid plate hit the pavement.

I guess it's time I met Luke and take advantage of his knowledge and experience.
Thanks again,
Gordie
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Augusta, MI
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OneLapper
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 11:22:44 AM »

Goodie,

What are the diamentions for the 4104 radiator? How does it mount? I have a very nice 4106 spare radiator. Maybe they interchange.
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
OneLapper
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 11:25:12 AM »

My engine still gets warm on a long hill, but I doubt its the radiator.


Hmmmmm. . . Considering the owner. . .   Me thinks the right shoe needs a dietary supplement!   Grin


JK, Mark!!


 Wink

LOL!  I've been known to go pretty fast when I need to!!!
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
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gus
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« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2012, 08:15:30 PM »

The solution to overheating on long grades is usually a lower gear, works every time.

I've driven the manual 4104 ten miles uphill in second gear with no heating problems.

In the Allison 4107 I just drop down to first and climb the same way. For some reason it won't keep cool in second very long on long grades, probably not enough RPMs - high RPMs are the key.
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PD4107-152
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