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Author Topic: How is your engine oil consumption?  (Read 5080 times)
TomCat
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« on: March 28, 2008, 08:14:17 AM »

Not wanting to hijack Franks awesome thread, I opted to post an independent one.

My 1987 Thomas SaftLiner with a reman Cat 3208T engine really amazed me when I determined I had used just under one gallon of Chevron 15/40 in over 10,000 miles...even with a very slight oil leak in my water cooled, engine oil cooler. The rest of the engine is clean and dry.
However, when I change it, it's blacker than black within 20 miles.

Anyone else have a freak engine with very little oil thirst?

Jay
87 SaftLiner
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lostagain
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2008, 08:28:07 AM »

The S60 in the hockey teams 102D3 doesn't use any oil to speak of. Except this winter when the Webasto wasn't working for a while, it would smoke at iddle and use oil in cold weather.
The 4-71 DD in my Courier 96 uses about one gallon every 1000 miles. Part of that leaks. I call it the "Green Dripper". Fairly high on my list now is to pull it out for an overhaul. That might be next winter's project.
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JC
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2008, 08:28:40 AM »

Jay, your engine is not a freak I know a little about that engine when is is rebuilt the right way they do away with the one ring piston and install a 3 ring piston and it make a good engine and uses very little oil   hope this help you to understand why your engine doesn't use oil
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belfert
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2008, 08:42:59 AM »

I don't believe most 4 stroke engines will use much oil unless they are worn out.  Like lostagain, my S60 uses basically no oil even though I have a small leak at the rear main seal.  I was using upwards of a gallon per 1000 miles when my turbo feed sprung a small leak.



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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Dallas
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 09:05:47 AM »

Tom,

I've used a few of the engines from that Cat family. 1160, 1170 and 3208. Everyone of them was a fuel hog and a smoker/oil burner until I had them rebuilt and turboed. After that the oil use quit, almost completely after the breakin period, the power went up significantly, and the power band was so much stronger I thought I had a 3406 under me.
I have never overhauled one of those engines myself, I try to stick to what I know... 2 stroke Detroits and 855 Cummins, but from what the mechanics told me when I talked to them about those itty bitty kitties, the change in ring, piston and crown was the reason for the better performance. The oil consumption was also greatly affected by the newer gasket system specified by Cat...

My biggest problem with the V-8 Cats was that without a turbo they would look at an overpass 3 miles away and get scared. As soon as you got within a mile of the overpass, you dropped 2 gears and fought the steering wheel because the Cat wanted to find a way around. Not a good engine in a Dump truck I had in West Yellowstone Mt. at least until I had the engine redone.

Sounds like you have a keeper!

On another note:... the oil will turn black within about 15 minutes on those engines... it's in the nature of the beast. If you want to keep the oil looking cleaner, (it won't hurt the engine as it is), add a Franz bypass oil filter that uses a roll of toilet paper for filtering.

http://www.wefilterit.com/

By the way... don't buy their replacement filters.. the cheap stuff from Wally's works better.

Dallas
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TomC
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2008, 03:25:11 PM »

The Cat 3208's were notorious for premature engine wearout since the cylinders were not hardened causing the cylinders to mushroom out at the top.  This caused ring flutter (rings going in and out from the out of round cylinder wall) causing the engine to be worn out at 200,000 miles.  If that happens, the fix was to bore out the cylinder and install a steel liner.  This would facilitate engines getting over 300,000 miles before the next overhaul.  All Cat 3126/C7 engines that have parent bore engines like the 3208 have their cylinder bores hardened, so now seeing a 3126/C7 getting over 400,000 miles before overhaul is not unheard of.
My Cat 3406B with air to water aftercooler would use one or two quarts in the 12,000 mile oil change span.  It always amazes me how an engine like the 14.6 liter Cat 3406B could work as hard as it does over the 12,000 mile oil change and essentially use almost no oil.  Great engines.  This is what is in my truck that I intend to convert into a big motorhome with garage.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2008, 03:39:44 PM »

My 8V71 used about a gallon every 800-1000 miles -- You could see where it went

All over the engine compartment and the toad and the road and the back of the bus.

I had the blower seal replaced among other leaks repaired and it went to only using a gallon every 1200 miles or so.

Melbo
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2008, 04:05:55 PM »

ex 4104............... qt every 3-5000
mc8....................2 qt every 5000
A3......................no noticable useage but have only had for a short time.
4108s.................2-3 qt every 3-5k
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Beatenbo
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 08:21:36 PM »

Back in the 70s I was driving a new GM 4108 and when it went out of warranty I turned it up to 2150 rpm and it always took a gal every other fill up 1000-1200 miles. The GM rep told me a quart every 250 miles was not excessive That engine went 750,000 before rebuild. My C3 6V92T will go 1500-2000 a gallon. Best I ever had. I dream of a 60series or maybe a cummings with better fuel mileage. Good day Charlie B
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JackConrad
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2008, 05:46:05 AM »

   I was watching a John Deere engineer the other night on RFD TV when he was asked about oil consumption. His answer was "Fill the engine to the full mark and use the tractor all day. Check the oil the next morning and if the oil level is above the add mark, use it all day. When you check the oil the next morning it will probably be about the same level. I don't know why, but every engine seems to have it's own "comfort level" as far as oil is concerned. Trying to maintain the oil level at the full mark may cause excessive oil consumption. As long as the oil level is above the add mark, it is in the "safe zone" and can be operated with no damage to the engine"
    This probably not his exact words, but summarizes what he said.  YMMV, Jack
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 05:49:01 AM by JackConrad » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2008, 09:58:57 AM »

Jack,

That has been my experience also.

When I first bought the bus I seemed to always have an oil film on the back after a trip.

I would top it off, take a trip and it would go down to the same level and stay there.

Then I decided to do just what your JD rep stated, and it almost stopped.

Whatever is the "extra" on "that" engine, just gets blown out the slobber tubes over the trip.

If I get around to making the slobber catcher I may just clean up my act......

Cliff

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Bob Belter
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2008, 12:09:05 PM »

Ahoy, BusFolk,

My Cummins 400 hp M-11 (1995) had 178 hours when I installed it in my -01 Eagle.  It is now at ~~ 35,000 miles.  Oil changes at ~~10,000 miles, and not only do I not add any oil, it scarcly moves on the stick.  I'd suspect that it is typical of the modern engines.  Anyone else?

I know that with the big old 'round' airplane engines, Wright particularly, "If there is no oil comming out of it, there is none in it".   
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jdr
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2008, 10:20:12 PM »

My Lycoming aircraft engine will not keep a full 8 qts of oil. Spits it out the breather right now. My oil consumption is very happy around 6.5 qts. Anyone see this kind of thing with 6-92's?   Jim
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buswarrior
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2008, 07:41:00 AM »

Somewhat related is the phenomenon of your Detroit "making oil" if the fuel system starts pumping diesel into the crankcase.

Poor busnut is thinking his Detroit is great, oil level always stays up, no oil added...

Not good, as the diesel thins out the oil and if not caught, the crank bearings take a beating.

It is well worth the $20 or so for an oil analysis at oil change time so you may discover small amounts of leak before it gets to be big.

The copper fuel jumpers, and the injectors themselves are the main culprits. Pulling the covers from a freshly run engine and watching carefully, you can often find the smallest runs of diesel heading downhill in the darker coloured oil film. Use a bright light. Manipulating the injector is helpful to show the offender. If you find one, well, the rest are suspect. Look even more carefully at the rest.

Good preventive maintenance is key. Re-using the wrong parts of unknown vintage is the busnut's biggest mistake. Remember, the previous owner already had a "best before" date in his mind for that bus, and instructed the mechanics to stretch it as it approached the sale date. Nobody in business is going to put money unnecessarily into something they are planning to sell.

We inherit stuff that should already have been changed out, and then we re-use it on advice from some "friendly" source.

Those copper fuel jumpers are notorious for leaking or cracking if re-used. You have no way of knowing if the proper torque was used on their last install.

Of course, unlike the commercial carrier before them, every busnut has a torque wrench and looks up the proper torque for everything they tighten.

Amazing what checking your oil regularly can lead to!!!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2008, 08:08:09 AM »

BW you make a good point but the lines are made of steel not copper a easy test to check for a broken line or a loose line is the tap method tap the line with a wrench if it rings like a tuning fork it's ok if doesn't replace it for 10.00 each   
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buswarrior
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2008, 08:14:26 AM »

well I'll be scuppered...

thanks mm2s!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
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