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Author Topic: That pesky $4 gal. diesel has crept into my neighborhood!  (Read 6404 times)
Charles Seaton
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2008, 02:35:24 PM »

Tom,

Great mileage for a large sedan.

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BusCrazyTom
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2008, 03:55:33 PM »

Charles: I've always found the mileage of these cars to be exceptional by comparison, its just that it all gets out of hand at $4 per gal. at Saddam and Osama's Neighborhood Exxon! I even have a Cadillac Fleetwood that gets unbelievable mpg for a huge gasser.

BCT
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belfert
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2008, 04:06:08 PM »

A lot of gas stations aren't even corporate owned these days.  The owner just pays a franchise fee to use the name.

That gas from your local Citgo station is unlikely to have been made by a Citgo refinery unless you have a Citgo refinery nearby.  most gas stations just buy from the local terminal that in turn buys from the closest refinery.  Generally, the only difference between the gas at various stations is the additive package.

You're as likely to buy Venezulan oil or gas from a Citgo refinery at any gas station as you are at a Citgo station.

I generally just buy from the lowest cost station as oil and gas production is so complex that in many cases the company with the sign out front may see nothing more than a few pennies for a franchise fee when i make a purchase.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Geoff
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2008, 04:40:23 PM »

I am making a 1600 mile trip in a week to stay for a week.  I was thinking of driving 55 to save fuel but I have to cross the Mojave desert and worse between AZ and CA. 

I CAN'T DRIVE 55!!@!!!!

So I guess it will be at least a $1,000 fuel bill.  BUT-- no motels with questionable drug residue and wild sex parties.  And we can cook in the bus and sleep in our own air bed (just like the one at home).  And our Jack Russells will be happier.  Oh, well, money is tight but I can't give up my comfortable bus conversion.
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Geoff
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2008, 04:43:13 PM »

Geoff.......That's the spirit! Grin
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« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2008, 04:45:42 PM »

Geoff,

Good luck with your trip. I hope you never have to give up your bus conversion. I'm still working hard to get mine even in the face of $4. gal diesel because it just fits the way I like to travel!

BCT
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2008, 07:13:39 PM »

Quote
Huge Oil Reservoir May Lie Under Northern Plains

The U.S. Geological Survey calls it the largest continuous oil accumulation it has ever assessed.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,349728,00.html

I hope they open that up and hang any environmentalist that gets in the way.
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belfert
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2008, 07:20:35 PM »

Any oil we find is nice, but 4.3 billion barrels is just over a 6 month supply for the USA.  For the world it would last 6 to 8 weeks.  We can hope, but I doubt the price is going down due to this.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2008, 07:36:25 PM »

Any oil we find is nice, but 4.3 billion barrels is just over a 6 month supply for the USA.  For the world it would last 6 to 8 weeks.  We can hope, but I doubt the price is going down due to this.

Sadly, you're right.  That isn't enough to drop the price much.  All we can do is hope that the crude oil commodities market corrects and a bunch of speculators loose their homes, assets and dreams.
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JohnEd
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2008, 10:23:22 PM »

Belfert,

I still love ya, honest Grin  "it doesn't matter what brand you buy" is soooo very misleading. Angry  Just like "your single vote doesn't decide anything" Cry....the state meant is true at some level but at it's base it is missleading.  Your vote DOES matter. Grin  You buy at EXXON....EXXON gets the profit.  You buy at CITGO....you understand.  It does matter or their would be no brands.  Whoever owns the local refinery gets a cut and if that is CITGO they get paid to refine and retail and pump the crude.  Same for Texaco or EXXON.  I am sure of this cause I read "ALL ABOUT IT IN READERS DIGEST(BIG PRINT)" Roll Eyes

There was a list of oil companies that ARE NOT ARAB.  CITGO, Dutch Shell, ARCO and SINCLARE are the only ones I remember.  But if you care you will boycott the Arabs.  None of the 9/11 hijackers was Vz. or Dutch or Indonesian or African nor did they come from democracy's.  Saudis mostly.

DinoD hit 4.39 here in Eugene, Orygun today.  I built my in line agitator and received my test kit for making BioD today.  I can get dewatered and filtered veggie grease for $1.05/gallon all day long.  I can collect it for free and have a tanker trailer on the drawing board.  "If you are following me you are breathing chinken fat that has been digested by a Detroit Diesel"  will be my new bumper sticker.

I meant the part about still lov'in ya Belfert....the rest of this might be iffy.

your friend and fellow Knut,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
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BusCrazyTom
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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2008, 05:00:12 AM »

JohnEd: Veggie grease here, dewatered and filtered to less than 5 microns is selling for $1.50 a gallon from the local recycler. I remember the "good ole days" when I thought 1.50 was high, but now it looks like the best thing going! May my Mercedes smell like Col. Sanders backside at that price, I won't care!

BCT
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belfert
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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2008, 05:24:06 AM »

Belfert,

I still love ya, honest Grin  "it doesn't matter what brand you buy" is soooo very misleading. Angry  Just like "your single vote doesn't decide anything" Cry....the state meant is true at some level but at it's base it is missleading.  Your vote DOES matter. Grin  You buy at EXXON....EXXON gets the profit.  You buy at CITGO....you understand.  It does matter or their would be no brands.  Whoever owns the local refinery gets a cut and if that is CITGO they get paid to refine and retail and pump the crude.  Same for Texaco or EXXON.  I am sure of this cause I read "ALL ABOUT IT IN READERS DIGEST(BIG PRINT)" Roll Eyes

Do you truly believe that a Citgo, Exxon, or Texaco station really gets their gas from the company on the sign?  There are two refineries in my area.  One is independent and the other is Marathon.  I don't think a Citgo station is spending money to truck gas from whereever the nearest Citgo owned refinery is.

I highly doubt the Citgo station can call up the refinery and ask that their gas be made from Veneluazan oil, especially since the refineries are fed by an oil pipeline from Canada.  There is a huge tank farm locally and trucks pulling out of there deliver to all different gas stations.  Some of the brand name stations have special additives added, but that is it.

I still stand by my claim that the gas you recieve at a brand name station is unlikey to be refined by the company on the sign and it is just as unlikely that the company on the sign provided 100% of the oil for that gas either.  I find it hard to believe the company on the sign makes much profit if they neither provided the gasoline nor the oil to make it.

I rarely if ever go to Exxon, Citgo, or other big brands because the little guys most often are less expensive.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2008, 05:47:28 AM »

I'm interested to know whether WVO users in the States are actually as blatant about as implied by the 'bumper sticker' comment above; I am sure that your diesel & petrol when sold for use in road vehicles (as opposed to farm machinery etc) incorporates a 'fuel duty' tax component in it's price as it does here, so running a vehicle on the road using a 'home-made' fuel is technically tax evasion as the fuel duty hasn't been paid. In the UK there are 'fuel testing' vehicles running around that randomly stop drivers to test their fuel - in the past this was mainly to test for 'red' (off-road) diesel being used in road vehicles, but now they are testing much more for vehicles running on WVO. The chances of being stopped are fairly small, but that fact that you can tell by 'smell' when a vehicle is running on WVO must increase the risk. If you are stopped the consequences are quite major as the authorities take tax evasion very seriously. It isn't actually illegal to use WVO of course, but you need to be able to prove that you are measuring your usage and sending the appropriate fuel duty payments to the treasury. 

The comments about buying WVO from local refineries, or collecting your own from restuarants etc are also interesting as that is something else you cannot do here - WVO is classed as hazardous waste, and you need a licence to transport it. I'm sure there are lots of people here using waste oil here in their vehicles, but both the people I know personally who do it both use NEW vegetable oil as it is a lot less hassle all round.

I wish things were as straightforward here as they seem to be the the States - but then again, I wish we could buy diesel for $4 a gallon too!

Jeremy
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BusCrazyTom
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« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2008, 06:19:06 AM »

Yeah Jeremy, $4 a gal. would be a break for those of you in the U.K., as its been astronomical there forever. I remember my uncle was paying over $5 a gal. to gas his Range Rover in Africa in the 70's. Not sure about the tax implications of using WVO, but were a country of tax protestors anyway. As long as it will get me there. Tax me, he**, they should give us an environmental tax credit!

BCT
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2008, 06:38:26 AM »

Belfert,

I still love ya, honest Grin  "it doesn't matter what brand you buy" is soooo very misleading. Angry  Just like "your single vote doesn't decide anything" Cry....the state meant is true at some level but at it's base it is missleading.  Your vote DOES matter. Grin  You buy at EXXON....EXXON gets the profit.  You buy at CITGO....you understand.  It does matter or their would be no brands.  Whoever owns the local refinery gets a cut and if that is CITGO they get paid to refine and retail and pump the crude.  Same for Texaco or EXXON.  I am sure of this cause I read "ALL ABOUT IT IN READERS DIGEST(BIG PRINT)" Roll Eyes

Do you truly believe that a Citgo, Exxon, or Texaco station really gets their gas from the company on the sign?  There are two refineries in my area.  One is independent and the other is Marathon.  I don't think a Citgo station is spending money to truck gas from whereever the nearest Citgo owned refinery is.

I highly doubt the Citgo station can call up the refinery and ask that their gas be made from Veneluazan oil, especially since the refineries are fed by an oil pipeline from Canada.  There is a huge tank farm locally and trucks pulling out of there deliver to all different gas stations.  Some of the brand name stations have special additives added, but that is it.

I still stand by my claim that the gas you recieve at a brand name station is unlikey to be refined by the company on the sign and it is just as unlikely that the company on the sign provided 100% of the oil for that gas either.  I find it hard to believe the company on the sign makes much profit if they neither provided the gasoline nor the oil to make it.

I rarely if ever go to Exxon, Citgo, or other big brands because the little guys most often are less expensive.

You are right that the fuel coming out of a Citgo retail pump very well may not be from VZ oil or refined in a Citgo owned refinery.  (I'm just using Citgo as an example) As you pointed out they buy from a nearest refinery.  But they pay that refinery a sub wholesale distributor price based on a high volume purchasing contract.  The retailer pays Citgo the wholesale price and their franchise fee for the brand name.  So Citgo makes a substantial profit selling it to the retailer and gets the franchise fee.
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