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Author Topic: Is 250 amps battery at 24 volts enough capacity?  (Read 2185 times)
belfert
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« on: April 10, 2008, 10:16:07 AM »

I am most likely going to replace my bank of 8 golf cart batteries.  I put them next to the engine on a stainless steel tray, but they are causing problems with servicing the air compressor and other things on that side of the motor.

I have not been impressed with the golf cart batteries so I want to switch to AGM batteries and move them inside the bus.  I don't want to sacrifice any bay space.  I am looking at using four 6 volt AGM batteries rated at 250 AH.

Anyhow, does anyone think I will be happy with 250 amps of capacity at 24 volts?  I would like to only runthe generator once a day.  I have a household fridge at 1.2 amps running off a Prosine 3000 inverter.  One of the other big draws is the 12 volt Proheat X45 heater, but I only go out in spring/summer/fall so the heater shouldn't run much.  I like the AGM batteries so I can charge them faster and run the generator less.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2008, 10:44:51 AM »

Hi Brian,

I have 1000 amp hrs. at 12 volts and that is just enough for me..  But, I'm all electric!

It sounds like you would have half the bank that I have if it were 12v.

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2008, 10:56:01 AM »

I have 600 amp hours of AGM's at 24 volts.  solar panels, super efficient refer, all electric.  Very happy.

Hard to say if you'll be happy or not.  The AGM's can be run down to less than 50% without damaging them, unlike the ones you have now.  If you park in a no generator zone, and need power, you may not be happy.  If you're driving every day, and catch a full charge all the time, you might.  With just a generator, you may not ever get a full charge, except when you are driving. 

There are many variables that will affect you.
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2008, 11:43:59 AM »

If I buy AGM batteries I don't really have the funds to go beyond 250 AH right now.  I may yet keep the golf cart batteries and just relocate them since they are over 400AH.  A gentleman in the battery industry for years said that batteries in series will work better than batteries in parallel as the bank with most resistance will limit the charging.  (Not sure I believe this.)

If I used the bus a lot more I would get more batteries, but I generally make two trips a year.  I can run the generator a lot for the cost of more batteries.

The places I go I can usually run the generator 24x7 if I want.  I am building a Genturi type exhaust stack this summer.

I suppose I can try 250AH on my first trip this year and add another string if needed.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2008, 12:00:10 PM »

you are not going to be happy with 250 amps one bag of popcorn in the mircowave through the inverter is about all you are going to get from 250 amps  but if you need 2 more 6v AGM I have 2 in AZ you can have they are about a year old.Aren't the 6V 224 amp each 4 would give 448 amp at 12 volt or 224 at 24 volt
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 12:21:27 PM by luvrbus » Logged
belfert
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2008, 12:23:06 PM »

The 6 volt batteries I am looking at are 250AH so yes, I would have 500AH at 12 volts.  My battery bank is 24 volt so I would have 250AH with four 6 volt batteries.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2008, 12:31:39 PM »

Belfert, you are welcome to these I have manufactured by Lifeline 224 amps at 75 degrees weight 67# each
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 12:33:56 PM by luvrbus » Logged
belfert
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2008, 01:12:26 PM »

Curious why you would get rid of these expensive AGM batteries?  Which Lifeline model number?
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2008, 01:37:52 PM »

Belfert, when I bought the batteries I paid for the model gpl-6c 300 amp and after I had them for about 6 mo 1 went bad and that's when I found out I had gpl-4c I was not a happy camper so they replaced the 8  gpl-4c batteries with the gpl-6c and told to keep the others because they did not want to pay the  shipping back. I have given 6 away and that is the story about the batteries
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belfert
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2008, 04:13:16 PM »

I thought about this whole issue on my way home and I realized if I don't buy enough batteries up front I won't have a matched set if I decide I need more later.

What about the idea of seperate 12 volt and 24 volt banks?  I would run the inverter, 24V lighting, and 24V water pumps off the 24 volt bank and 12 volt loads off the 12 volt bank.  I would get a smart charger for the 12 volt bank.  My only concern would be running the 12 volt Proheat X45 heater off the 12 volt bank.

I'm thinking two seperate banks would allow me to buy batteries of different sizes and date codes for the two banks.  The date codes and sizes have to match within each bank certainly.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2008, 06:57:19 PM »

I had a 1.2 amp 120 volt refer with a prosine 3000 inverter. It used about 150 amps 12 volts a day at about 80 deg.
I do not think you will be happy with 250 amps at 24 volts.
I have 1680 amps of 6 volt L16H Trojans
Good Luck
Jerry
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2008, 07:18:55 PM »

I set my battery area up for 4 L16 batteries. But at the recomendation of Fast Fred who said to start out with a learner set of cheap batteries I used 4 golf cart batteries @ 24V. I have had them about 6 years and they work well for me. I do have LP water heater and cook with LP.  I tend to be conservative with energy and can run for about 1 day without chargeing the batteries.
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 07:21:19 PM »

The 250 AH setup I have in mine is fine for watching TV and running the Satelite receiver, (Priorities  Wink) but if I were going to add anymore load on the inverter side, I'd be looking to upgrade. Everything else is 12v/24v/gas or generator (AC-Microwave). For 2 trips a year, I'd be hard put to justify the expense of more batteries vs generator when batteries only last so long whether they're used or not. Good luck, Will
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2008, 08:23:33 PM »

I have the same setup, but with 510 amps at 12v (about the same ultimate power).  Your reefer will pull about 6 amps at 24v.  So figuring 50% run time, that's 3 amps per hour, or 75 amps (with inverter loss) in 24 hours.  If you're going to buy the 250 amp 6V, why not pay just a bit more for the 300 amp Lifelines available now?  I know when my 2 8D Lifelines at 255 amp hours apiece go belly up, I'm going to change to the 300 amp 6v, since they weigh in at 93 lbs compared to the gorilla 155lbs of the 8D's.  Yes you can mount them indoors, and you can mount them any way you want, with being upside down not preferred.  But you can lay them down!  Good Luck, TomC
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luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2008, 08:33:25 PM »

TomC if you want the 300 amp Lifeline this place has them and will deal over if you buy over 4   www.bestconverter.com   
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belfert
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2008, 08:40:10 PM »

TomC, I am going with 250AH 6 volt batteries because I found a non-Lifeline battery that is at least 25% less than the Lifeline.  This manufacturer does not have 300AH 6 volt batteries at this time.  If money was no object I would do the Discovery L16 6 volt or the Solar Star 2 volt, but money is an object.

I originally was going to do two 8Ds, but I found that four 6 volt batteries are the same price with shipping added and the same amp hours.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2008, 08:49:25 PM »

Belfert wise choice I am having trouble with 1 of the 300 amp Lifeline now and they are not a month old yet and truthfully I do not think they are any better than any other brand but I did at the time
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belfert
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 05:35:41 AM »

How does one identify a bad battery in a string?

The one good thing about Lifeline is they are still made in the USA.  Most AGM batteries are now made in China.  Unfortunately, the ones I am considering are made in China.  I like to buy made in the USA where practical, but $500 additional for Lifeline isn't in the budget right now.

If I want to stick with 8Ds instead of lighter 6 volts I can get Deka batteries made in the USA locally for not much more than ordering the Chinese batteries.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2008, 06:23:44 AM »

Anybody know anything about these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Federal-Gel-Tech-8-D-Battery-Deep-Cycyle-Marine-RV-TRuc_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ40019QQihZ014QQitemZ330197920133QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

It's  a very good price if they are not made from tar & tin foil. doesn't specify shipping costs either but we could probably get bobofthenorth to freight them down for us!  Grin Grin

TOM
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2008, 07:10:37 AM »

Always remember the law of physic of Series and Parallel Battery:

A series circuit provides only one path for electrons to follow.
Whenever you add batteries in series equal the voltage time’s battery voltage but ampere hours still is the same as one given battery.

A parallel circuit provides alternate paths for current to follow.
Whenever you add batteries in parallel equal ampere hours times battery amp/hour but voltage is the same as one given battery.

Example;
Series…..6v + 6v + 6v + 6v = 24v but ampere remain the same as the weakest battery

Parallel…250a + 250a + 250a + 250a = 1000 ampere/hours but voltage remains the same as the weakest battery.

So you need 16 times 6v at 250a/h to achieved 24v at 1000a/h.

If you know about the water pressure & flow & volume then:
Voltage is as water pressure
Ampere is as water flow
Wattage is as water volume

Bottom line is if any brand new (never used) battery is not as fresh as others such as manufactured date or size or brand or stores shelve life condition …..The battery’s output will not be what as labeled specification.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2008, 07:44:08 AM »

From what I have learned, I would stay away from Gel cell batteries.  They are much more sensitive to discharge and charging cycles.  What I like about AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries is that you can charge them as fast as you can pump in the amps so long as you don't over volt them, you can adjust the charger so both wet and AGM batteries have the same charging rate, and they don't require any maintenance-except to maybe make sure the terminals are tight and clean.  Good Luck, TomC
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belfert
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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2008, 08:50:21 PM »

I am going to have to reconsider my battery plans.  The 6 volt AGM batteries I was looking are listed as 250AH, but a closer look reveals they are really only 200AH so not enough amp hours.  The alternative is the 8D battery, but the place I was going to order the 8D batteries from raised the price pretty significantly just today.  It is now less money to just get 8Ds locally, plus the local place still has batteries made in the USA.

With the ever increasing prices on batteries I might just keep my current batteries and look harder for a better place to mount them.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2008, 10:20:26 PM »

Try calling a few Trojan dealers around you for 8D AGM's - use a co. name and maybe you can get a wholesale  price - just a few amp hrs. less than Lifeline - HTH
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belfert
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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2008, 06:34:07 AM »

Try calling a few Trojan dealers around you for 8D AGM's - use a co. name and maybe you can get a wholesale  price - just a few amp hrs. less than Lifeline - HTH

I did call the local Trojan dealer and when I asked about 8D AGMs never brought up Trojan.  Instead, he recommended a East Penn Deka 8D for $440.

My employer buys a lot of batteries from this dealer, but it doesn't appear they will extend me my employer's price.  I called from work and the dealer saw the caller ID and assumed I was placing an order on behalf of my employer.  If I get serious about buying the batteries I'll ask them for a discount.
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