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Author Topic: Camping World greed  (Read 3002 times)
gumpy
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« on: April 20, 2008, 10:07:29 AM »

I'm a little ticked at Camping World. I know many of you will see this as petty on my part but it just underscores the greed of some companies.

I purchased an Onan generator for my bus that had been in a wreck. The air cleaner housing is busted and I needed a complete replacement. Camping World is listed as a dealer, and since there's one near me, I decided to have them order it. I told them I needed the entire housing. They called Onan and ordered it. $37 and some change, including $10 for shipping. The price seemed fair at the time. When I got it, it was only half the parts I needed. So back to CW I went, with a printout of the diagram. They called Onan again and got the correct parts. I told them I didn't think I should be paying for shipping again, so they split it with me. $25+ including $5 for shipping this time. So, I'm into this plastic air cleaner housing to the tune of over $60.

So, when I got the second set of parts, Onan had sent me an itemized statement, including price billed to CW for the parts. To my surprise, Camping World has a 200% markup on some of these parts. Minimum markup was 100%. And they were drop shipped to me. Camping World didn't even have to touch them! All they had to do was order them, and they even screwed that up and it cost me more money because of it.

On top of that, I was balancing my credit card statement today, and I noticed my two charges to Camping World were off. Only by a penny, but I'm pretty meticulous about my financials. I went back and looked at the sales receipts, and discovered that when they charge sales tax, they automatically round it UP, regardless of what it comes out to. If it's not a whole penny, they round it up to the next penny. So tax or 9.3 cents gets rounded up to 10 cents, rather than rounded down like every other retailer in the nation does.

I know one thing, I won't be doing much more business at Camping World.

I think I'll see if I can find an address for the corporate office and send them a nice little note.

craig
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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2008, 10:15:51 AM »

How do you think that Camping World can open so many new stores all over the U.S.?  Believe me, even with the giant mark up of Camping World, many of the items sold are still quite a bit lower than other Mom and Pop RV stores.  This just teaches you to go straight to the manufactures dealer, rather than through a middle man.  Since you're so careful with your finances, you should also know that-this is how I saved thousands on my conversion-by going directly to the source.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2008, 10:20:08 AM »

Grumpy...... check your mail.....I'm sending you a penny.


No really...... it's the least I can to to repay you for your great website. Grin
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2008, 10:38:05 AM »

How do you think that Camping World can open so many new stores all over the U.S.?  Believe me, even with the giant mark up of Camping World, many of the items sold are still quite a bit lower than other Mom and Pop RV stores.  This just teaches you to go straight to the manufactures dealer, rather than through a middle man.  Since you're so careful with your finances, you should also know that-this is how I saved thousands on my conversion-by going directly to the source.  Good Luck, TomC

I tried. It's difficult to do when you don't own a company. I've been able to set up accounts at a few places using my "company" name, but some require tax id numbers and such.

Onan uses several dealers, Camping World being one. The rest seem to be RV dealerships, and I suspect the markup would be even higher there. 

And when this started, the $37 for what was supposed to be everything I needed wasn't too bad, for the convenience of it.

Like I said, I know some will consider this just whining. And maybe it is.

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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2008, 11:05:41 AM »

Except for groceries, most retailers shoot for 50% gross margin,100% gross markup, or higher.  Even Wal-Mart typically targets that in most departments other than grocery.  Grocery departments usually target 30-35% gross margin.  Gross margin is profit divided by retail price, gross markup is profit divided by wholesale price.  50% gross margin = 100% gross markup.  So when you hear a retailer say they work on a 50% margin, they mean 100% markup, they double the wholesale cost.  Furniture stores and convenience stores usually target 100% gross margin (200% markup) as do mall clothing stores.  The really high end luxury stores have much higher margins than that even.  I'm actually kind of surprised that Camping World isn't running a higher margin.  Although they may be running higher margins on in store products.
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2008, 11:09:22 AM »

Sometimes you do feel like your being penetrated and there is nothing you can do about it.  I bought an overpriced $8. part for an Equator washer/dryer once where they charged me $13. shipping.  The part was delivered in a first class letter with a 39 cent stamp on it.  I thought that they should have at least put it in a more impressive box.  They may as well have put the bone stamp on the envelope.
   
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2008, 11:15:25 AM »

Craig,
First off I don't see this really as whining, but rather venting. Now second as you stated most suppliers will only wholesale to "distributors or stores". And then you added that you were able to set up some accounts under your "company name", but many want tax id #'s and such. If I were you, I'd go ahead and set up a federal tax id # it takes maybe 5 mins. to fill out the form & you'll have the # in minutes on line or days by snail mail. Then you can use your coach as a write off for your conversion company as a demonstraitor model, and also buy parts direct tag on a reasonable mark up and resale them to your friends here on the boards and elsewhere at a substantial savings. Oh and by the way, on the sales tax thing always round it up! That way it's in the bank when it comes due to file/pay it! (every company I know off does it that way, as almost all tax accountants recommend it that way).

Also go ahead and send CW corporate a letter, they'll be glad to hear yer not gonna be wasting their sales peoples time anymore, so they can cater to the crowds of folks that bring stuff in and say "whatever it needs fix it!" Which is where they really rake them over the coals! FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2008, 12:22:50 PM »

I don't consider it whinning, you are 110% entitled to be upset. I become very frustrated when dealing with things financial. It may only be 1 cent but its my penny and I worked d--n hard for it. After a few experiences with Onan replacement parts I would go without a generator befor I would buy one of thier products again!!
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2008, 12:56:24 PM »

I do not think 100% mark up is really unreasonable for slow moving parts that may be stocked for many months before one is sold. One of the major UPS manufacturers that I used to deal with had a standard 700% mark up on any spare parts they sold.

Richard
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2008, 02:07:08 PM »

I do not think 100% mark up is really unreasonable for slow moving parts that may be stocked for many months before one is sold. One of the major UPS manufacturers that I used to deal with had a standard 700% mark up on any spare parts they sold.

Richard

Richard,

I don't disagree with you on that. However, this is a part Camping World does not stock, ever, and in this instance they didn't have to handle it at all. It was shipped direct from Onan to my door. I might could see it if they were installing it for me, or it was sitting on their shelf.

I guess I shouldn't be complaining about it. At least I did get the parts, and it probably only cost me about half what I was fully expecting to have to pay for them, considering it is an Onan part, and there's little call for it.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired of the world taking advantage of people. When I was growing up in our family business back home, we had a standard 40% markup on all parts, regardless how long they sat on the shelf or what they were. We charged a fair hourly rate, and we didn't tack on extras. Now, you go have some work done on your car, and the prices are marked up 100% or more on parts, they rake you for labor, and then they charge you for shop supplies, disposal fees, fuel surcharge, and shipping for any parts they had to order, even though they probably get a shipment of parts from the same distributor on a daily or weekly basis. Next thing you know, they'll be charging you for electricity to power the lights they use as they work on your car. What ever happened to the cost of doing business?

I ordered some screws from Fastenal once. They charged me to ship a bag of screws from another store that was 5 miles away and they had a truck going between each store on a daily basis. I could have driven there and picked them up for less than their shipping charge. And had they told me about it up front, I'd not have placed the order at all.
 
I think BK is right. I am just venting. But I'm still sick of companies ripping me off.

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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2008, 03:24:39 PM »

Craig,

Everything you said......PLUS!

Share anytime.  You have earned the right in spades.  About anything.

Thanks for your site,

John
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2008, 03:32:11 PM »

Hi Craig,

Just about everything we use or consume is marked up for a profit.  Onan made a mistake and printed CW's price. if you had not seen that you

wouldn't be Angy and never thought twice about the price. If CW gave you good service in the first place, then none of this would be an issue..

You would be just as angry if you knew how much a cup of coffee cost your favorite convenience store. I'll bet when I tell you it cost them 13 cents

and that in including the sugar, cup and cream you will be just as angry! What the public doesn't know won't anger them until someone gets too

greedy and thats when trouble starts.

Craig, when you are in need of bus related supplies, ask us here on the bbs first and I'm sure we have many members that have the in's on wholesale

pricing on most parts. I for one am happy to do this for our members and have many times allready.  Just ask!  

I make a good profit on my local customers and I need to do so to stay in business but, I also give my customers the best service second to none!

That is where many large corporations fail.. "Service"  You can't expect to make alot of profit and not give a value for it!  Most folks don't mind paying

top dollar for something that if they search long enough, the will find cheaper. Bottom line, time is money and most will loose money spending time

to save a few dollars so, finding a company that is dependable and treats you as their best customer ever is well worth the added cost to most.

Nick-

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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2008, 03:49:13 PM »

I was going to hang with the CW group at the Fontana Nascar race in Feb to the tune of $960. Did some checking and found I would be sitting in some real crummy seats, with no upgrade in the parking lot. So much for CW travel group. I did alot better dealing with California Speedway direct, great seats, less money, same parking.
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2008, 04:00:32 PM »

I do not think 100% mark up is really unreasonable for slow moving parts that may be stocked for many months before one is sold. One of the major UPS manufacturers that I used to deal with had a standard 700% mark up on any spare parts they sold.

Richard

Richard,

I don't disagree with you on that. However, this is a part Camping World does not stock, ever, and in this instance they didn't have to handle it at all. It was shipped direct from Onan to my door. I might could see it if they were installing it for me, or it was sitting on their shelf.

I guess I shouldn't be complaining about it. At least I did get the parts, and it probably only cost me about half what I was fully expecting to have to pay for them, considering it is an Onan part, and there's little call for it.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired of the world taking advantage of people. When I was growing up in our family business back home, we had a standard 40% markup on all parts, regardless how long they sat on the shelf or what they were. We charged a fair hourly rate, and we didn't tack on extras. Now, you go have some work done on your car, and the prices are marked up 100% or more on parts, they rake you for labor, and then they charge you for shop supplies, disposal fees, fuel surcharge, and shipping for any parts they had to order, even though they probably get a shipment of parts from the same distributor on a daily or weekly basis. Next thing you know, they'll be charging you for electricity to power the lights they use as they work on your car. What ever happened to the cost of doing business?

I ordered some screws from Fastenal once. They charged me to ship a bag of screws from another store that was 5 miles away and they had a truck going between each store on a daily basis. I could have driven there and picked them up for less than their shipping charge. And had they told me about it up front, I'd not have placed the order at all.
 
I think BK is right. I am just venting. But I'm still sick of companies ripping me off.



I can absolutely posituvely guarantee that they charge you for the electricity they use to power the lights.

Richard
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2008, 05:43:24 PM »

I was at a Napa Store waiting for the sales person to find my part.  There was another sales person on the phone to a shop and giving them the prices for the parts they needed for a customer.  The "retail price" was as least 100% higher than the shops price on every part.

Our furnace needed a new control board.  The HVAC people wanted $760.00 to install the new one.  I found one at a wholesale house for $240.00 and one on the internet, not the Estore, and it was $119.00.  It took four screws and two plugs to install it. 

They are in the business of making a profit, but sometimes, it's a matter of what the traffic will bear.  I know what it's like to be self employed, but really.

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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2008, 05:44:49 PM »

 Its not apples to apples, I can choose not to pay over $1 for a cup of coffee. Craig is a captive customer of Ohno and thier dealers.
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« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2008, 05:52:25 PM »

Another story of true greed.

When we first got the bus, we wanted the suspension bushings changed.  We were having trouble finding anyone that wanted to work on the bus.  So I stopped by Dan Gamble RV one day.  They have a huge repair facility in our area.

Yes, they could do the work.  Great.  We would need to leave the bus in four weeks as they were really busy.  They would have to take all the bushings out and to make sure they got the right new parts.  Then when the parts arrived, they would install them.  How long would this take?  No telling.  How much would the cost?  $110.00 per hour plus parts.  How many hours?  No telling.  How long would they have the bus?  No telling.

Thank you and Good Bye.

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« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2008, 05:53:28 PM »

Craig: I completely agree with you on the issue of stocked parts. A few years ago I was rebuilding my ride type lawnmower and went to the local dealer who had sold it, with a list of parts. Only a small part of the list was in stock and the rest took about three weeks to arrive. I paid for the ones he had in stock but complained about the high price for some of the ones ordered in. His explanation was that his price list had varying markups depending on annual sales volume. Since some of the parts I ordered were expected to sell only once a year they had a high markup to cover the shelf cost. I agreed with him in principle and pointed out that he had no shelf cost because he didn't stock them and he had his money thirty days before he had to pay for them. Net result, I stopped doing business with him and he lost the parts business for about six small engines that I had in use.

BTW. Every Cummins dealer is also an Onan dealer. Same high prices and lousy service but another source. I am currently doing the necessary machining to adapt a Kohler engine to replace an Onan engine in a welder. Cummins wanted $3800.00 for a short block (20 HP) and Kohler's price was $1400.00 for a complete engine.
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2008, 06:01:21 PM »

I was at a Napa Store waiting for the sales person to find my part.  There was another sales person on the phone to a shop and giving them the prices for the parts they needed for a customer.  The "retail price" was as least 100% higher than the shops price on every part.

Our furnace needed a new control board.  The HVAC people wanted $760.00 to install the new one.  I found one at a wholesale house for $240.00 and one on the internet, not the Estore, and it was $119.00.  It took four screws and two plugs to install it. 

They are in the business of making a profit, but sometimes, it's a matter of what the traffic will bear.  I know what it's like to be self employed, but really.

Don and Cary
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Hi Don,

I don't think I have ever writen a bill over $375.00 including labor for any control board.

That's real steep! Maybe just greed... Glad you shopped around on that one!

Nick-
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2008, 06:17:54 PM »

I don't buy from CW but you guys have to take in consideration these people probably spend 2 to 3 mil on the building and land ,have inventory that some states charge tax on like it was cash on hand, the payroll taxes workers comp, health insurance is going to cost them about 45% with out a 401 plan and then there is overhead for building lights,water,sewer,insurance and maintenance on the building plus a big liability policy for the lawyers to try to collect on all in all I bet the profit margin is less than 20% before taxes   my thoughts
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2008, 07:21:31 PM »

As was mentioned earlier, Cummins now owns Onan.

This Wed., our local SAE chapter is touring the Cummins facility in Denver.  Craig, if you give me a part number(s), I will see what they want for the same parts.  Might be an interesting "study"

As to BK's recommendation, be careful, as that sort of approach my doom you to filing quarterly reports etc.  I am not an expert, but I am not sure you can get an EIN number without filing for an LLC type organization.  Sure not worth it, as that causes you to file lots of papers each year.  Someone more business oriented can give you a better reading.  I know that my LLC requires Quarterly filing of things like unemployment taxes, etc.

Jim
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2008, 07:33:22 PM »

And if you declared the bus a part of the business, it would probably have to be registered as a commerial vehicle with all the headaches that involves.

BTW, you can get an EIN for a sole proprietorship, but it does result in quarterly reports that need to be filed.  It can also put you under the IRS microscope if you go that route and never submit any payroll taxes.  Nothing that can't be cleared up with proof during an audit, but who needs the increased risk of audits?  Just not worth it just for getting discounts, in my opinion.
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2008, 07:43:56 PM »

Amortize the bus??? Huh Huh Now why didn't I think of that one? LOL
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2008, 08:07:02 PM »

Someone mentioned time is money and sometimes searching for the lowest price can cost money.

I personally work a salaried job.  Nothing has ever been brought up about expected hours worked, but there seems to be a understanding that I will work about 40 hours a week.  I am on-call every other week except vacations so I cannot take a second job.  I am basically working for free over 40 hours per work since no overtime or anything like that.

The point is if I can reaserch pricing for an hour and I end up saving $25 I just basically made $25.  I didn't lose money because I wouldn't have been working anyhow.

Back on topic, some Onan parts are outrageously priced.  A standalone air filter assembly for an Onan that has a hose to attach to the air intake was well over $100 from Cummins NPower.  I did some research and a Donaldson air filter assembly that was almost identical was under $50 and would work just as well.
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2008, 09:16:33 PM »

It doesn't sound to me as if CW took advantage of your good nature very much, especially since the parts were so low priced and you didn't order the right parts the first time. They even gave you a break on the shipping!! I was surprised that the parts weren't much more expensive from what I've read on the boards.

Now if those parts had cost a few hundred or thousand bucks then I would have made some noise about it!!

From what I've read on the boards these same Onan parts from Cummins dealers are really expensive, the main reason I bought a Honda gen to replace my Onan.

In all my dealings with CW they have been more than willing to do the right thing and their prices are the best I have found anywhere, especially when they have those good sales.

Retail markups are what they are and businesses don't vary all that much because of competition. They are in business to make money and CW is one of the best in my experience.
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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2008, 05:01:49 AM »

Like Gus I have a Honda generator I dealt with Ohno once, never again. Shaft me once shame on you, twice shame on me. Very frustrating I would love to point at my generator and say with pride it is a Ford, GM, American motors etc built in Snowshoe Wisconson USA.
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