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Author Topic: Electrical wire size ??  (Read 3186 times)
Blacksheep
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2008, 06:00:07 AM »

Stan I thought he mentioned he wanted to use it for 12v! I would never use it for 120

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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2008, 07:49:43 AM »

Actually, 24 Volts.
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2008, 10:59:29 AM »

SORRY, but even so I think it would work ok!


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Barn Owl
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2008, 11:06:06 AM »

I found this interesting:

http://users.cwnet.com/~thall/fredhobe.htm

Way to save money on wiring by Fred Hobe:

     I buy 100 foot extension cord when they're on sale number, 12/3 conductor wire size. I can get them for as little as $15.00 and they come in different colors. I get several different colors and use yellow for air conditioners, orange for lights, black for wall plugs (120 volt) and green for 12 volt. They are UL approved and very flexible. You need to tin the ends when you hook them up to your main and on other connections use High lugs. Use an indent sqeezer to make good connections. You can buy 100 ft. cords with plugs on them cheaper than you can buy the wire by the foot. I use about 500 ft. of wire on a coach.


This shows how wires are run in the roof. Run them were they will come down the wall to the fuse panel.
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2008, 12:48:12 PM »

     I buy 100 foot extension cord when they're on sale number, 12/3 conductor wire size. I can get them for as little as $15.00 and they come in different colors. I get several different colors and use yellow for air conditioners, orange for lights, black for wall plugs (120 volt) and green for 12 volt. They are UL approved and very flexible. You need to tin the ends when you hook them up to your main and on other connections use High lugs. Use an indent sqeezer to make good connections. You can buy 100 ft. cords with plugs on them cheaper than you can buy the wire by the foot. I use about 500 ft. of wire on a coach.
...
This shows how wires are run in the roof. Run them were they will come down the wall to the fuse panel.


Fred's a nice guy, but someday he's going to kill somebody with this.  I've taken him to task for this before, and I wish he would take this deadly advice off his site.  (He's also got air brake advice on there that is similarly dangerous and illegal.)

For the record:  Using extension cords this way is dangerous and also illegal.

Saying that extension cords are "UL Approved" might mislead someone into thinking that makes them safe to use as Fred advises.  In reality,
  • Any UL listing immediately disappears once you modify something, such as cutting the molded ends off an extension cord.
  • Cords are not "approved" they are "listed" for a specific use.  Usage of extension cords is well defined in the listing standards, and these specify that the cords must not be covered in any way, such as installing them within walls, under carpets, etc.
  • The manufacturer's rating for the cord and choice of insulation materials assumes that the cord will be used in the open, not covered.

I've written extensively on this board and even in BCM about why doing this is a fire waiting to happen.  If you care about yourself and your passengers/loved ones, you won't use them.

(Low voltage use, which the NEC defines as below 30 volts, is a different subject.)

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 12:51:01 PM by Sean » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2008, 01:08:30 PM »

I was hoping to get the skinny on that, I have always wondered what the reaction would be. For some reason I have not seen other postings on it, it must have been before my time.

Sean, I am always amazed at your depth of knowledge on so many topics. I greatly value your contribution to this conversion community. I also think you have one of the best blogs going. For those who haven’t been there, check it out:

http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com/

Love the videos!


Thanks,

Laryn
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2008, 02:17:38 PM »

I was at Home Depot today buying caulk and I looked at the landscape wire.  It 39 cents a foot for 100 feet of 12 AWG.  It would certainly work, but I would still do the marine wire even at 60 cents per foot.  Far less expensive to do it with marine wire for $20 additional per 100 feet than to spend a lot more later trying to find a short or an open, or god forbid having a fire due to bad wiring.
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2008, 04:08:35 PM »

Hi Folks,

If this doesn't tell you that Sean is telling you the truth, nothing will!

http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/usershub/safety/documents/extensioncord.pdf

Nick-

P.S. page 4 lays it all out for you...

Disallowed Uses Of Extension Cords
The following uses of extension cords are not permitted at the NHMFL:
• Extension cords may not be used in place of permanent facility wiring. Cords shall not be attached to building surfaces or structural members. They shall not be permanently concealed in walls, ceilings, or under floors - including raised computer floors.
• Do not run cords through moisture, tied to over-head pipes, across traveled roads, under carpets, or across areas of high foot traffic.
• Extension cords may not be run through doors, ceilings, windows, holes in walls, or through hinged door openings in enclosures. This is to prevent “pinch” damage to the cord. If it is absolutely necessary to run an extension cord through a doorway or open window for short-term use, the cord must be protected from damage should the door or window slam shut; it must be removed immediately when no longer in use; and must not be a trip hazard.
• Do not use extension cords that are frayed, cut, or damaged such that inner conductors show, or that have outer sheaths which have pulled loose from their molded plugs exposing the inner conductors. In particular, do not use a cord that has a bare conductor exposed.
• Detachable multi-tap adapters may not be used on extension cords nor on receptacles.
• Cords may not be repaired with electrical tape, nor may tape be used for other purposes on a cord. It may conceal damage, and it does not provide the integrity of the original jacket.
• Do not use extension cords in which the third prong (grounding prong) has been removed from the plug


Other Considerations For Extension Cord Use
Cord overload and overheating:
In addition to the total electrical load, the conditions of use affect extension cord safety. Rated capacity for an extension cord assumes it will be used in an open-air and straight configuration.
As electric current passes through a wire, electrical resistance causes some voltage drop and heating of the wire. Coiling or winding excess cord length can concentrate this heat and overheat the cord. Similarly, covering a cord with a rug or rag can trap heat and overheat the cord. This trapped heat can damage the cord and lead to a fire. Tying a knot in a cord can have a similar outcome.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 04:24:16 PM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2008, 05:19:42 PM »

If you don't understand the spirit of the codes or laws, or what they are trying to prevent, you will miss the fact that some things have multiple uses.

Many times an items usefulness is not noted or allowed because another method is preferred or required, and is the code.

Electrical is very much this way.

Lots of good information on this board from many knowledgeable folks.

Read and verify everything for yourself.

Cliff



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« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2008, 08:19:37 PM »

While we're on the topic of wire, in pricing I found 10ga to not be much more expensive than 12. Can to big a wire be bad ? My plan is to use the 10 for everything...
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John P, Lewiston NY   1987 MC 9 ...ex NJT
Sean
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« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2008, 08:44:37 PM »

... Can to big a wire be bad ? My plan is to use the 10 for everything...


Yes, actually.

Oversized wire can certainly be better in many ways -- there will be less voltage drop, for example, and therefore less current draw for induction motors.  Also, it's easier to change circuits out for larger ones, if you need to later.

BUT, there are strict limits on how many wires of each size can go in a conduit or a junction box, and how many connections of each size can be made in a junction box.  Also, devices are rated for connections in a certain size range, which can not be exceeded.

When you use #10 where, for instance, only #14 is required, you will find yourself needing to go to the next larger conduit size in many cases, say 3/4" vs. 1/2".  Or having to use extra-capacity boxes.  And many common household devices such as receptacles and switches are rated for wire no larger than #12, meaning you'll have to pigtail the outlets and make connections, which will again impact the required size of the box.  You may not be able to wire a normal outlet in a normal size single-gang outlet box if you run #10.

HTH,

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 08:50:50 PM by Sean » Logged

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