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Author Topic: Summer Gas woes ie higher proices around the corner...  (Read 3356 times)
mikelutestanski
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« on: April 28, 2008, 04:11:09 PM »

Hello        Just received some rotten news tonight   monday 4/28/08. THe national news is saying that gas will go lots higher during the summer months . Starting now..
    According to the gas companies the price of crude has gone up  80% but the price of gas has only gone up   30% and we (THe gas Companies) have been  holding the prices down whilst using up all the reserves in the system.    HMMMMMM  interesting..
   So the downside is That 4 dollar diesel translates to  6 or 8 dollars when supplies get tight especially during the summer months.
    They blame China and India for hogging up all the new gas.
    Also  the dollars  for the rebate that should be coming are all going to go out of the country to the middle East and Venezuala etc.
      I wonder where all the oil profits are going for the companies that are US based..Huh

     Pretty sad to think I worked the last 2 years on the bus to now look at it and not be able to take those trips that we have been planning for the last 10 years or so.      Well   not grounded yet but   its getting harder to   stay  positive.
        REGARDS   and Happy Bussin   if you can find the happiness more power to you.   Mike
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 05:37:28 PM »

We're over $5 a gal for diesel and we're still using the bus. We camp closer to home and don't do as many big trips. We also sold both our fuel guzzling SUV's and bought 2 Jeeps, a TJ and GC ... we need 4x4's in the winter where we live ... it cut our fuel costs in half ... oh and we are driving slower.
Ron
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belfert
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 05:43:39 PM »

I highly doubt we'll see prices that high unless oil prices go a lot higher.  We'll see the second great depression if prices get that high and the government is likely to step in at some point to do something.

The only good thing if prices double is highways will be emptier outside of rush hour as hardly anybody will be able to afford to drive anywhere but work if prices double.
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 05:45:32 PM »

Hello        Just received some rotten news tonight   monday 4/28/08. THe national news is saying that gas will go lots higher during the summer months . Starting now..
    According to the gas companies the price of crude has gone up  80% but the price of gas has only gone up   30% and we (THe gas Companies) have been  holding the prices down whilst using up all the reserves in the system.    HMMMMMM  interesting..
   So the downside is That 4 dollar diesel translates to  6 or 8 dollars when supplies get tight especially during the summer months.
    They blame China and India for hogging up all the new gas.
    Also  the dollars  for the rebate that should be coming are all going to go out of the country to the middle East and Venezuala etc.
      I wonder where all the oil profits are going for the companies that are US based..Huh

     Pretty sad to think I worked the last 2 years on the bus to now look at it and not be able to take those trips that we have been planning for the last 10 years or so.      Well   not grounded yet but   its getting harder to   stay  positive.
        REGARDS   and Happy Bussin   if you can find the happiness more power to you.   Mike

Wouldnt belive them if they Swore on the Popes Naked butt..  Angry
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 07:31:42 PM »

Read today that the price of a barrel of oil could go up to $200 this year. The OPEC ministers blame it on the weak dollar!

And we all know where that dollar is going to.

Dang it anyway!

Paul
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Charles in SC
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 07:52:43 PM »

Do not sell your bus yet, I can remember when the dollar was high compared to the other currencies. There will be a new president soon and I am guessing HE or She will put a lot of time into boosting the dollar.
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 08:00:12 PM »

The dollar could end its slide this week yet if the Federal Reserve keeps the interest rate level.
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 08:47:30 PM »

If diesel goes to $10 bucks a gallon in this country, our fuel supply will be the least of our concerns.
Starvation will get our attention first.  The trucking industry will collapse and with it goes the food supply.   Everything from seed to fertilizer is trucked.  The whole food cycle would be disrupted.   For the world I might add.   Starvation will be rampant in third would and emerging economies.   More anarchy!    I'll bet that starvation would slow the assaholey Iraqis and Iranians a little.   Cheesy Tongue
Roadwarrior styled anarchy comes to mind. 
If the US falters badly enough,  the world will burp too...China will have societal mayhem (more mayhem than now).  We are their market.  As we go, so go they. 
And all while Rome (DC?) burns we continure to pay homage to the Sierra Club?  Gads we're stupid suckers!
You know that what scares me is that we could be sitting here witnessing quantum changes to our lifestyle as we know it.  We cannot go back to the horse an buggy days.  You couldn't feed it, and someone that hungry is going to take it from you and eat it using whatever force neccessary.   Our gov definitely has a mess.  I hope that they are not as lost as they seem... Shocked
Oh Well.  I live on a farm, am fairly well armed. Got fambly right here that could assist. 
Now what the hell do I do?Huh  How do you plant beer?    Now I'm getting depressed.  Grin
Actually I'm not depressed over fuel prices. I drive an electric car.   Grin
Has any thought been given to neutron bombing Venezuela?HuhHuhHuh?  Neutron bombs only remove the sapiens....leaves the oil system sitting there idling for our benefit.
Iraq, Saudies, Hama (do these guys for the hell of it!).
Yeah, stuff's going to happen soon.  Now I'm all anxious and whatever?
JR
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 04:08:26 AM »

 The trucking industry is collapsing!!!! We do not hear about it on the news becuse Brittany Spears going to rehab is more important!!! Our Gov. meanwhile is doing  the best they can to keep the trucks rolling by allowing Mexican truck drivers into the country cause they will work for a lot less.
 Congress is to busy investigating steroid use in professional sports to get involved in private industry problems.  They had have time to subsidize ethanol to the tune of 50 cents a gallon to help drive up the price of food!!!! How could any society be so stupid as to burn thier food?
 Think about it, it takes 1 gal of oil to make 1.3 gal of ethanol, the ethanol is susidized to the tune of 50 cents a gal. Fuel milage is worse with ethanol. So your tax dollars are used to subsidize something that is driving up the price of your food. Where is this tax susidy coming from? well the Gov prints the moeny, which of course drives down the value of the dollar. Which in turn drives up the price of oil. How do you spell STUPID?
 It has occured to me that throughout history the people that burned your food were your enemys, sak and pillage, things like that.
 If we are going to blow something up or invade, lets start with Canada. They send us more oil than anyone. They are a major exporter of oil. There is another interesting one. The Canadians are getting shafted by thier Gov worse than us. All of the other oil exporting countries (except Mexico $2.50) are paying under a dollar for gas. 
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 04:28:44 AM »

Guys,

Take a DEEP breath......

This too will pass....Our economy has had a great run for quite awhile...

Lets all get through this correction and change in the world economic's and supplies.

If you want to do something, instead of just talking, send all of your representitives a short, polite letter about your concerns.

They will be noted and you have at least done your part to effect change..

I only worry about the things that I have direct control over, like getting the "Custom Coach" finished.

And as JR said: Oh Well.  I live on a farm, am fairly well armed.  Reminds me to load up on bullets.... Wink

I guess I may order that home brew kit too!  Tongue   JR....Winters are warmer down here.....Think about it!

Cliff

 
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2008, 05:03:33 AM »

For those who remember the 1970s, the public and the media were saying that if gas reaches $1.00/gal. the world economy would collapse and if they had thought about it, they would have threatened us with global warming. People were donating their big cars to charity and buying Toyotas. Ten years later when gas passed $2.00/gal, they were selling the Toyotas to buy big SUVs.

The rising fuel price is just a repeat of many that have happened before. The collapsing dollar is a different picture, and as long as the American people insist on living on credit so that they pay their debts with freshly printed money, the dollar will continue to slide. Note that when I say the American people, it also refers to all levels of government ("government by the people").
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2008, 05:07:39 AM »

For those who remember the 1970s, the public and the media were saying that if gas reaches $1.00/gal. the world economy would collapse and if they had thought about it, they would have threatened us with global warming. People were donating their big cars to charity and buying Toyotas. Ten years later when gas passed $2.00/gal, they were selling the Toyotas to buy big SUVs.

Stan,

Exactly what I was thinking!

Cliff
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 07:20:59 AM »

Here's another way to look at it.

Since I've been a little kid, a gallon of gas, a half gallon of milk, and an ice cream cone (single scoop)  from the corner store ALL cost the same.

In the 50's it was a dime
In the 60's it was 35-50c
In the 70's it was a buck
2 bucks in the 90's
3 bucks last year
and guess what, all headed toward 4-5 bucks now.  It's not the just gas, it's everything, still in sync...

I'm just surprised nobody is pi$$ed off about ice cream prices!!!
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2008, 07:26:36 AM »

I read somewhere that the price of gold has tracked the price of oil for many years.  I can't verify the accuracy of that.
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2008, 07:53:12 AM »


 Len,

    about 95% of the time....along with silver, platinum, palladium........um probably a few
 I have forgotten.

    As a barrel goes up inflationary fears also rise........precious metals are considered a hedge
 against inflation..............YMMV.

    Some exceptions are like the Hunt brothers attempt to corner the silver market, and usually before we
 go into a military action, etc.   basically an emotional market.

 Skip
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2008, 08:07:18 AM »

Who would have thought that electing a government of the oil companies, by the oil companies,  for the oil companies would create any sort of problems?
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2008, 08:09:29 AM »

I also saw a piece on C-Span, I think the tail end of some hearing.  The gist of what I caught was that some oil execs and oil industry analysts agree the the realistic price today should be $60-70/bbl.  They were saying that the price has been driven up not by the cartels but by speculators.

I don't understand at all how commodity markets work or how speculators can control the price.  Part of what I heard is that other commodity markets are regulated to prevent this from happening but oil is not.  Can't imagine why that would be.
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 08:23:04 AM »


I don't understand at all how commodity markets work or how speculators can control the price. 

Think of it like an auction with a bunch of aggressive bidders.  What happens?  Sometimes they run the bidding well above the market value. 

I just hope to see the day that it all crumbles for them and they lose so much of their own money that they are seen jumping out of their high rise windows.
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 08:39:58 AM »

. . . . . THe national news is saying . . . .  

. . . . . According to the gas companies . . . .   

Wouldnt belive them if they Swore on the Popes Naked butt..  Angry

Me either!


I'm just surprised nobody is pi$$ed off about ice cream prices!!!


I am, but that's another board to bitch on  Wink


Who would have thought that electing a government of the oil companies, by the oil companies,  for the oil companies would create any sort of problems?

Ummmm, did I miss something? The president ain't a dictator (but he seems to be a great scapegoat for the media). I thought the democrats have been controlling the house AND senate while the gas prices have been shooting up lately . . . .
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 08:44:17 AM »

The speculators are controlling the market right now because the stock market is not making good returns and they see oil prices going up and up.  The speculators keep buying oil so the price keeps going up.  The price can't keep going up forever if there is not another force besides speculators buying.
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« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 08:46:52 AM »

I also saw a piece on C-Span, I think the tail end of some hearing.  The gist of what I caught was that some oil execs and oil industry analysts agree the the realistic price today should be $60-70/bbl.  They were saying that the price has been driven up not by the cartels but by speculators.

I don't understand at all how commodity markets work or how speculators can control the price.  Part of what I heard is that other commodity markets are regulated to prevent this from happening but oil is not.  Can't imagine why that would be.

Len,

Here's sort of a brief example:

I sell widgets, today they are selling for 1.00 each.

A speculator wants me to agree to sell widgets to him for 1.10 in one year.

I beleive the price of materials and such won't go up and drive my price up any by then, so I agree.

My motive is I will get .10 more each, if my costs go up, my loss, if they drop I make even more.

The speculators motive is He thinks the price will be even higher than 1.10 and I will be bound to sell it to Him for that.

In my opinion its not investing, but gambling. 

So you can see how the Oil futures are being driven up by this.  Contracts are sold many months out and lots of gamblers.

Just remember the .com boom, get ready for the OIL boom!

Cliff
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« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2008, 08:59:22 AM »


 Cliff,

     So basically buy long sell short and hedge everything between Smiley

   The kicker is the ones the commodity floor are the one pushing the prices up and
 covering with shorts when/if things drop through the floor. In other words they
 would be protecting themselves at both ends.


 Skip
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« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2008, 09:01:02 AM »

I just hope that in 2009 President Clinton puts some regulation on speculators Roll Eyes
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« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2008, 09:41:00 AM »

What I'm hearing about is the "Enron Loophole" which exempted energy trading from federal commodities laws pertaining to certain types of trading environments.

Not sure exactly how it works but that seems to be the reason oil speculation is unregulated compared to other commodities.

Of course, the price of oil drives up the price of other commodities.  If a wheat speculator thinks oil will be $200/bbl next year, then he also thinks wheat will be up because of the energy it takes to produce. Copper smelting and aluminum production take lots of energy. I guess this would apply to most commodities but not the other way around.

http://www.closetheenronloophole.com/
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« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2008, 11:19:35 AM »

Our news programs are currently full of items on fuel prices as petrol has just past the significant 5 per gallon mark (that's $10 a gallon to you, although our gallons are slightly bigger than yours). I've just heard a bit of an interview with a haulier who said that his fuel costs had risen by 30,000 ($60,000) a month since last November. There was also an item on 'ways to to reduce your fuel consumption', and the presenter actually suggested people turned their car radios off.

Petrol apparently hit 6.70 a gallon in parts of Scotland last week due to filling stations raising their prices in anticipation of likely fuel shortages due to workers at a refinery up there going on strike - pure profiteering though, as by all accounts there was more than ample fuel in storage, and more arriving all the time in an attempt to persuade the public not to panic buy.

Jeremy
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« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2008, 11:49:11 AM »

Speculators usually never lose money. They are just percentage people and they get their cut whether the price goes up or down. The people who make or lose the money are the investors, like Joe Blow looking for a higher return than a CD or your pension fund and insurance companies.
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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2008, 12:40:12 PM »

 When the oil bubble bursts, which it will. It will be after  protected off shore and Alaskan fields are opened up to exploration.  The speculators will lose thier shirts. But dont fret about them the Gov will bail them out!
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« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2008, 04:41:44 PM »

When the oil bubble bursts, which it will. It will be after  protected off shore and Alaskan fields are opened up to exploration.  The speculators will lose thier shirts. But dont fret about them the Gov will bail them out!

You got THAT right..
they Subsidize Tobacco, Oil and Gawwwd knows what else..

Can anyone spell "The Boston Tea Party" ?  Angry
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« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2008, 07:20:03 AM »

For anyone afraid that oil is going to $10 a gal. and staying there. Here is an interesting artical by a man who was an oil trader for many years.

http://www.thestreet.com/s/forget-fundamentals-when-it-comes-to-oil/university/personalfinance/10414145.html?puc=_htmlbtb

 The people of the US have the power to stop the speculation.
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« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2008, 10:28:42 AM »

I have to agree with you JJ this is an oil bubble and when it crashes it will go as all commodities have gone in the past ... straight down without hitting the sides. Good article ... thanks, at least one of the talking heads has a brain on this issue.
Ron
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