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Author Topic: Tire Classifications - Long Haul vs. Regional  (Read 3946 times)
WEC4104
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« on: June 07, 2006, 08:44:45 PM »

Age has caught up with my tires and I am weighing several options at this point. I have followed various tire related threads on this and other boards.  Without rehashing past threads about recaps, brand preferences, or possibly buying used, etc,  I am looking for guidance in one specific area:

Assume for the moment that I wanted to start by putting brand new sneakers on the front of my GMC 4104 (11R22.5).  Surveying the major manufacturers, they seem to classify their tires into general categories.

LINE HAUL / LONG HAUL - Primarily for long distance trucking operations

REGIONAL SERVICE / DELIVERY - Seem to have beefier sidewalls to take more abuse.

I am curious as to which way you guys would lean.  I am pondering this thinking ...

Regardless of which type I pick, most seem to have a rated top speed of 75 mph, which is just fine for my 4104 speed demon. I have been known to scuff a curb from time to time (with the rears), but these will probably end up on the rear axle some day.  My 4104 does see a good percentage of straight-shot interstate highway driving. It is not unusual for me to do a  400+ mile day of highway cruising.

My understanding is that after 75,000 miles of highway cruising, I could start to get cupping on a set of regional service type tires.  But I don't know if I would care.  I won't put more than 10K miles on in an average year, so the clock will run out before I see cupping.  Age and sidewall cracking will hit me first, and if the regional service models have beefed up side walls, maybe that will delay the problem.

There may also be ride comfort considerations or fuel mileage factors for me to consider that I am not aware of.  What else am I missing here?   I was leaning toward the long haul models, but can see certain advantages to the regionals.

Recommendations?
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TomC
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2006, 10:37:48 PM »

I am a new truck salesman for Freightliner and Michelin has come over to give us our own private seminars on their tires.  You are correct in the two classifications that you would be interested since you wouldn't want an on/off tire (like for a trash truck) or a construction tire (for dumps and loggers).  With Michelin their XZA, XZA1, XZA2, XZA3 are their primary on road steering/all position premium road tire.  Advantages to these tires is the maximum tire tread life, least rolling resistance (expecially the XZA3 and XZA2 Energy) and quite possibly the best ride since they have the most flexible side walls, but a low rolling resistance tread.  Disadvantages, the relatively thin sidewall can be blown out by "kissing" a curb; the tread can get cut up if you do any off road driving-and possibly have small rocks get driven into the tire.
The other style tire is the regional tire which mainly is the XZE in the Michelin tire.  The advantages is mainly in the reinforced and thicker side wall for going over those curbs that stick out to far.  This may make for a bit rougher ride (but I haven't found that). The tread design (on the 16ply tires) has rock ejection and anti rock cutting technology, so off roading shouldn't be a problem.  You already know the less tread life. 
I just put on a complete set of Michelin XZE 11R-24.5 16 ply that is actually more tire than I needed. I could have used the 14 ply, but liked the fact that the 16 ply has the rock and cut resistant tread design.  Also, even though I'm an old truck driver, because of where we drive the buses (compared to a commercial truck) we do scrape, rub, go over curbs at times.  If you are concerned about the less longevity of the tires, run the tires in the same position for 25,000 miles.  Then rotate the two left duallies to the front and put the two front tires on the left duallies.  There is something about running the tires on the drive axles first that allows the tire to break in only going straight, that makes for a very long lasting steer tire.  If you do start getting cupping on the front tire, rotate them again with the right dually.  Personally, my first set of tires were 12 years old when I replaced them, since they were just starting to show some sidewall cracking (I keep my bus indoors) and they still had over 70% tread left.  I would highly recommend the Michelin XZE 16 ply in your 11R-22.5 size.  Even though they are more expensive, you'll have the piece of mind that you put on the best tire that you could.  As to any ride considerations, the single most important thing you can do is to make sure you are running the proper tire pressure for your weight of the bus.  For instance, I run 90 in front, but 95 in the rear.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
phil4501
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2006, 08:03:14 AM »

Would 16 ply be to stiff if one were to run 10 of them. I am not sure what the final weight will be. My tires are too rotten to go on. The scenicruiser needs new rubber now. Do You think the additional tires warrent going to 14 ply or is 16 ply OK.
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gus
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2006, 09:38:59 PM »

WEC,

I just installed two TOYO M122 11R22.5  14 ply tires on the front of my 4104 6500 miles ago and am very happy with them. This tire is a steer tire for trucks.

They cost me a bit over $700 out the door which is a pretty good price compared to some of the prices I've seen posted here.

The price was good because they are the top selling truck tire at this dealer so volume helped. Other tires I priced were a lot more.

I just returned from a 6200 mile trip from AR to Seattle via CA and they were great. When I replace the other four I plan to get the same tire.
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PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
WEC4104
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2006, 10:04:57 PM »

Currently I have the Toyo M104  11R22.5 tires installed. They were on it when I bought her 6 years ago. I have always been pleased with them, just wish they lasted 20 years!

I would buy Toyos again in a heartbeat (and may)
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TomC
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2006, 10:27:41 PM »

Phil- I run all six the same Michelin XZE 11R-24.5 16 ply and can say that they do not ride stiffly.  In fact, my last set of tires were Dunlop that were on for 12 years (I store my bus indoors).  The Dunlops were automatically 16 ply in the 11R-24.5 size.  They also rode well-so much so that the original mechanic that did my change over from the 12R-22.5 to the 24.5's couldn't believe the ride difference.  The bottom line to having a good ride is to first weigh the bus by axle then run within about 5 psi of what the manufacturer suggests.  On my bus with 10,500lb in front and 20,500lb in the rear, I run 90 in front and 95 in the rear.

As to tires for the 4501, I wouldn't waste the money for 16ply tires on the rear since the legal limit on tandems is 34,000lb and a normal set of 11R-22.5 duallies can support about 22,000lb per axle!  As to the front, I would run 16ply, just for the safety-but as said before, at the proper inflation.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Brian Diehl
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2006, 06:04:15 AM »

I run Toyo M111 tires on my drive and steer axles.  I've found the m111 to not be the "best" tire and have issues with them causing some uneven pull on the steer axle.  (Yes, the front end has been completely aligned).  I bought the Toyo's due to price considerations only  as I had to buy 6 at once.  Other than the "funny" behavior on the front axle I noticed no other problems that rotating every 10000 miles has not taken care of.
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El-Sonador
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2006, 06:48:47 AM »

I have replaced the steer, tag and spare with 315/80s Hankooks, I would of preferred Michelins at that time, and tried to, but that's another story.

My drive tires are the originals, when I purchased the bus. The bus was a Canadian Government owned and seem to have been a special made-for-them tire from Firestone and I think that they are capped, but I can't tell for sure.

The drives have 315 80/Rs 22.5 18PR X, also marked on the tire is HP/3000 LPs Regroovable. There is also another stamp marked GO-7820 which I suspect that the GO is a special code for the Government of Ontario but not sure.

How would I know if these tires are capped or even the right tire for this bus...?

Steve





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TomC
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2006, 07:42:59 AM »

Steve- usually fairly easy to tell if the tire is capped.  Sometimes see machining marks on the top edge, or it looks like the rubber was poured onto the edge, and since most caps have a beginning and an end (put on in one strip rather than a fitted doughnut-since all tires are different in diameter) rotate the tire and inspect the tread.  If it is a cap it should have a line where the two come together.  Nothing wrong with caps as long as the proper inflation is maintained.  The single biggest factor in tire failure is too low air pressure.  Also- nearly 50% of the aligators on the road (big chunks of tire) are from new tires! 
315/80R22.5 is the updated but tires, but in my opinion, too much tire.  Passenger buses are exempt from weight rules on axles (especially in New Mexico) RV's are not.  So 20,000lb on the driver, up to 20,000lb on the steer (at least here in Calif) and whatever the tire says on the tag is all that is allowed.  So on the normal 3 axle that would be 16,000lb front (average rating I've found) 20,000lb driver, 13,000lb tag for a total of 49,000lb.  In my opinion, way more than enough.  Personally, I don't know how Newell gets away with their 70,000lb beheameth?  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
El-Sonador
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2006, 07:52:54 AM »

Thanks Tom...

I'll check out my drives for this seam.

As for tire inflation, I'm running with 110 in the drives and steer and 100 in the tags.


Steve
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gus
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2006, 02:18:20 PM »

WEC'

I think the Toyo M104 is discontinued. They seem to change Model numbers often.

Brian,

The Toyo M111 is probably not a steer tire.

At the time I bought mine I did a lot of research and this is what I remember. It is probably a drive or trailer tire.

TomC,

Far more than 50% of the gators I see here in the south are new, probably more like 80-90%. The reason I notice is that I have to dodge the shredded wire all over the road.
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PD4107-152
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Jim Seward
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2006, 03:22:10 PM »

Wayne:  I just had 6 Sumitcmo tires installed, They are 12r-22.5
16 ply. I got then off a local guy here in Lansdale, $2000. He cane out to my house to do the job And he hauled old one’s away .
If you are interested e-mail With your phone #    Jim Seward
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TomC
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2006, 10:06:13 PM »

Steve- big suggestion-weigh your bus.  I'll bet you're running way to much pressure for the weight you're pulling.  Then you can have an improved ride quality.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
bernie
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2006, 04:41:42 PM »

i have 11/24.5s on my 4104.they are all position tires.i have had them for about a year and have had no problems. they are made by cooper. i run cooper tires on all my vehicles. i hope this helps
Bernie
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WEC4104
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2006, 07:24:19 PM »

Jim:  I am running 11R22.5s.  I have heard of the Sumitomos, but don't know much about them. Is there a model number I can reference? It is easy enough for me to get over to Bergey's in Hatfield, so I was considering going there. But it always good to consider my options.

Bernie:  Because of my work, I have been in all of the Cooper plants in the U.S (Findley, OH; Tupelo, MS; Texarkana, AR; & Albany, GA)  I know they used to make truck tires in Albany (and still have them on display in the front lobby) but I think they told me they have stopped producing them. I haven't seen them being manufactured in any of the other plants, either.  Could be they are now being made overseas, or in a joint venture with another manufacturer.

Gusc:   Yes, I am pretty sure my Toyo M104s have been discontinued.  I think mine were produced during the Eisenhower administration.
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