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Author Topic: Headliner  (Read 3762 times)
LarryN 4106
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« on: May 12, 2008, 05:24:18 AM »

Yes, I know this is a tired old subject. We have been using our bus for 4 years and it time to resume the conversion process. Here is what I want to do. I want to buy some "hull liner" fabric from a boat supply place. It is like carpet with no backing. I want to just glue it to my existing 4106 stock ceiling. I wonder if anyone has done it this way? I am wanting to use an adhesive that allows me to reposition the fabric, but one that will set up quick so that I can move on to the next section. Yes, I intend to respect the "sections" and maybe put somes sort of wood capstrip, stained, over the "joints". I know that some sort of contact cement would be better but I am worried about getting it right the first time with that stuff. Yes, I am looking for a "Quick" headliner.

Or......has anyone just rolled on a texture paint onto the old linoleum of whatever that stuff is?
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tekebird
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2008, 05:30:49 AM »

IMHO carpeted ceiling is the one of the worst mistakes you can make.

It allows all sorts of stuff to stuck to the ceiling, smells, smoke, cooking grease etc.

fast way to have your bus start to smell inside
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2008, 05:51:26 AM »

How about using naugahyde over the original panels?  You take a panel off, glue the hyde over it and wrap the edges around the panel and put it back up using the original hardware.  If you wanted the plush look, add some 1/2 inch foam to the panel, then cover it.  Gotta agree with Teke, carpet gets NASTY!  Good Luck!

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
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LarryN 4106
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2008, 06:26:17 AM »

My bus is just a few feet from my office. I will go see if I can determine how hard it would be to remove the existing panels.
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buddydawg
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2008, 06:28:56 AM »

I took my original panels down and used contact adhesive to cover them in vinyl.  I then made some new aluminum strips to cover the space between the panels.
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2008, 06:30:33 AM »

Another pic.
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Brandon Stewart - Martinez, GA
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2008, 06:37:36 AM »

I glued a hull liner on the ceiling with 3M spray on glue. All in one piece from front of the bus to the back. It was resting on 3 saw horses so I was under it and pushing it up onto the glue. You trim it after it is up with a sharp knife. It went very well. It looks great. It is a very short hair material and I don't think it would pick up any smell. It is made for boats and is not like carpet.

JC
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JC
Invermere, BC
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2008, 06:51:53 AM »

 Are you guys talking about the Ozite material made for boats and RVs or a different type here
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RTS/Daytona
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2008, 06:54:15 AM »

Come on guy - get out of the DARK AGES

I agree OLD MATERIAL/CLOTH/COTTON Based carpet is bad

BUT

The new Ozite  polypropylene / indoor/outdoor carpet are GREAT for ceilings

see--> http://www.rvsurplussalvage.com/catalog/display.php?product_id=4022

They are made from old milk containers -

they don't hold odors

If you get cooking grease on them - wipe them down with strong cleaner / mineral spirits / etc / almost nothing hurts them

all the RV manufacturers use it

EASY install / EAsy Clean / Long Lasting / sound deading -- what's not to like

I used --> http://www.wwhenry.com/prod-351.htm to glue my carpet to the walls /
DO NOT USED WATER BASED GLUE - They just don't hold well - use a good grade of SOLVENT based glue

You can also use spray contact cement - BUT YOU MUST DOUBLE COAT any BARE WOOD or OZITE SURFACE - beacuse they are so porus - and remember - you only get ONE SHOT at placement - unlike the carpet cement

I did my ceiling in 5' x 5' Baltic Birch (aka russian birch) 1/8 panel on the ground then put them up
IN HIND SIGHT - i would use 2' x 5' 1/8 panel and assemble them to the ceiling in 2' wide sections using "h" moulding that is screws to the ceiling - just put the first panel in and press and screw  "h" moulding at the open end and continue down the coach

Pete  (Just the way I see it - Do what you want guys)


P.S. - My OZITE CEILING / WALLs in my RTS have been installed for 3 years with ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS
 
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2008, 08:29:52 AM »

The problem with carpet (Ozite) is it will hold smells and airborne greases from cooking.
Ron
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tekebird
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2008, 08:32:52 AM »

and dust etc.

fine for a boats hull that your head is not a few inches from...and you can hose down.

would not be my choice, but as they say here.  Do It your way..... and as I say, your the one that has to live with it or do it over
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luvrbus
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2008, 08:35:58 AM »

Guys I don't think the new stuff (Ozite) is that way seen in the newer S&S and looks good to me
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tekebird
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2008, 08:41:05 AM »

I donlt think it looks bad but anything that is not smooth will get dirty and smell in long term
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2008, 08:51:51 AM »

I used Ozite in our truck conversion and on the door of our bus (left over material from the truck) and it is TERRIBLE to try to keep clean!!

We are not smokers and don't do much cooking, but you could see the dirt around the AC unit in the truck.  I don't recall that I was ever able to get it clean. 

We used the Ozite to dampen the noise and I think it did a good job of that. 

Most folks put a thin layer of foam between the panel and the vinyl (about 3/16 as I recall from my Bus Conversion Workshop).  That makes it look nicer and should help a bit with the noise.

Be very careful of the spray adhesive you use.  It can get very hot in a parked bus and most adhesives will fail in time.  Use the spray adhesive that they use for the landau tops!  You can find it at a good upholstery supplier.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2008, 09:11:54 AM »

Jim, back when you done your truck all Ozite had was the cotton  and it was hard to clean my wife hated the stuff but like Pete said this a totally different product also vinyl and foam will absorb as much smell as anything.David at Southern Oregon tried for 2 years to get the smell from his MCI  covered with vinyl and foam and finally had to rip it out and start over so I really could not tell any one what to use we have ultra leather in ours and it has problems any place water touchs it and this stuff was $70.00 per yard
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 09:39:52 AM by luvrbus » Logged
rv_safetyman
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2008, 09:14:23 AM »

I had missed Pete's post.  I value Pete's opinion.  It is true that many RV manufacturers use the material.  It does look good.  However, I suspect they use it for cost savings more than anything (material and labor)

As I posted earlier, I have had trouble keeping mine clean.  Since I am still working on the bus, the door panel gets touched with less than clean objects, so my situation may be unique.  Lately I have used carpet cleaner and it does a somewhat acceptable job, but it still does not look clean.  Pete, what do you use to clean your Ozite?

If you do go with Ozite, be careful how you apply the glue (and which glue you use, per my previous post).  Obviously the material is very porous.  I used a roller to apply the glue and that was a huge mistake Sad Undecided.  You know how engineers are:  if a little is good, more is better Grin.  I got too much glue on and it bled through the material in places.  If I were to do it over again, I would SPRAY the Ozite with a light "sizing" coat first and let it dry.  Then come back with another heavier coat for the actual application.

My experience with the automotive landau glue was that you can start applying the Ozite before the surfaces are completely dry and you can work with the material a bit.  That is from some old tired brain recall, but I am pretty sure it was not like formica, where you only get one chance.

Bottom line, play with some scrap pieces before you jump into the full blown project (like I did).

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2008, 09:17:39 AM »

Hi Clifford.  We posted at the same time.

I am almost positive that the material I have is the same as they use today.  For sure it is not cotton.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
Bob Gil
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« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2008, 09:20:26 AM »

While on this how would you reatach the ceiling material after it has started falling in places? 

Can the smal places be put back up or would it all need to be taken down and replaced?
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1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

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« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2008, 09:28:01 AM »

Well its to late for me. I just did mine with the wife and 2 kids. It was mothers day so I let her help. I wouldn't think it hold smells worst than any other material. I tried to post a pic but comes back to large of file.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
luvrbus
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« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2008, 09:46:48 AM »

Jim, I don't know why I said cotton it's more of nylon type (I think)with cotton the Ozite I had in the bus.I still have a roll of it in white if you need it come get it
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RTS/Daytona
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« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2008, 10:31:19 AM »

The best contact cement I've ever used - Got this from a master RV specialist who restores Classic GMC M/H of the '73-'78 (Front wheel drive Old Toranados)

I used:

DAP Weldwood Contact Ashesive
Landau Top & Trim HHR Solvent Type
Spray Grade (natural) in 5 Gal can
Also available in red

This is a contact cement with a fast drying time (professional) and it's made to withstand high temperatures (LANDAU TOPS)

$50 from an upholstery shop - supposed to be only sold to professionals - but usually available to guys like us

Think they had 1 gal can @ $15

I used a cheap spray gun (harbor Freight) run at full pressure (100-120 psi) - comes out like cotton candy (that's fine - it means it working - to store - always keep it full - pull the trigger half way and shoot just air to clear the nozzle - block of the air hole and stored it in a plastc bag - keeps for months and months

Either paint the wood or spray it once and let it dry - then apply a second coat - If you don't the first coat gets absorbed into the wood and IT WILL NOT HOLD - I also spray the carpet twice (just let it dry - then re-spray) - it works much better - you will not be able to pull it apart

My first attempt with out a double spray - released - pulled away - did not stick well

OPEN VERY WINDOW/VENT - REMOVE ANY SOURCE OF FLAME OR SPARK - PUT FANS IN EVEY WINDOW - WEAR A GOOD MASK - BE CAREFULL

Pete RTS/Daytona


I clean my Ozite (Gray - Ribbed indoor/outdoor carpet from Home Depot) with GRUDE CUTTER and sometimes Mineral Sprits
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« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2008, 05:27:44 AM »

Jim (RVSAFETY) is absolutely right

Don't trowel carpet adhesive on the ozite - it will come thru the carpet (what a mess) - ask me how I know this :-(oh $#!%)

Trowel it on the wall / ceiling and then "let it set" just like the instruction say to do) - it gets very very tacky after it sets up

but

It still allows movement when you apply the ozite -

DO NOT test the adhesion for the next few day - it takes a few day / up to 1 week to get TOTAL adhesion - it still very tacky after a day or 2 - so don't keep on testing a corner - just leave it  -- ask me how I know this too :-(

Pete RTS/Daytona
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« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2008, 10:14:01 AM »

A trick to doing walls and using contact cement is we all know once you coat both sides (wall and material) and you touch them, it's pretty much stuck for good, but one tip is you can do as above but before attempting to attach the material, you can leave a small workable space at the top exposed and cover the rest of the area with brown paper grocery bags (if you can still find them) via small staples. The material won't stick to the bag but with help from another person you can align the material at the top edge. Once it is stuck, you can carefully remove the bags one section at a time for further adhesion! This method has proven many times over to work in the professional field and doing a bus is no different! The problem I see with using the multi purpose adhesives is as mentioned! They bleed thru the material which causes nothing short of a disaster and they take for ever to tack up which brings to mind it gives off a gas or odor! Using it on floors is ok because you can properly roll the material with 100 lb roller which gets the glue to spread evenly and get good even penetration. If troweling, make sure you use a very small notch in the trowel. Most store bought trowels are too large. We cut our own with a trowel notcher designed specifically for each job!
Hope this has helped!
BS
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buddydawg
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« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2008, 12:16:25 PM »

Another good adhesive I have used is 3M 1300L.  You have to thin it with toluene to spray it and it works excellent.  Works well with vinyl, carpet & upholstery.  Use it like any other contact cement, apply to both sides and let tack before installing the upholstery. 
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1972 GMC T6H-5308A #024

Brandon Stewart - Martinez, GA
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« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2008, 06:56:31 PM »

When doing the ceiling during our conversion back in 2000, we put up 3/8in exterior plywood, tongue and groove and sealed it with minute wax outdoor shield to hold the hold the vinyl top adhesive glue.

We installed first limo sound deadener rubber to the ceiling then came back with the ozite it was sewn together width wise, as seen in the picture below, we did half the bus that way in one shot, there was a red line on the inside of the ozite for the center line.   The red line matched up with the red line on the center of the ceiling.  You spray glue on the sound deadener down the center and the ozite we sprayed the ozite outside down the center,  after you hang it down the center you spray it and work it from the middle down toward the side with a Teflon spreader, it will not harm the ozite.  Spray both halves with the glue as you go along, that way you don't have to worry about the drying time as you go along, get one side of it done first and then start on the other side.  When you trimming be sure you have a lot of sharp razor blades, because you will go through them.

We have no problem of it being dirty, no musty smell, no cooking odors, no falling down, also no one smokes in the bus so there's no smoke smell.  Ozite seems to be a nice material, we also have it on our bedroom walls, it holds the outside noise down.  We have had no problems with it.

Sorry to make this post so long, but we thought we would tell you how we did it,  you could do it your way.  Please notice the pictures.

          Pete & Jean
            FANTASY
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