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Author Topic: tail light question  (Read 1801 times)
Blacksheep
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« on: June 13, 2008, 11:48:34 AM »

all original lights on back of bus are single contact. ALL meaning red tail/stop, amber turn, and clear backup all have a single contact.

New lights going in are red tail/stop DOUBLE contact, amber turn SINGLE contact and clear backup SINGLE contact.

WHAT TO DO?

Trying to use the original connection as much as possible!

Thanks

BS
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tekebird
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 11:54:18 AM »

sOriginal were?

brake light single contact
tail light single contact
turn single contact?

or where brake/tail combined?
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 12:29:47 PM »

8 lights on each side

2 clear backup
2 amber turn
4 red  (2 stop, 2 tail)

ALL have single contacts!
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tekebird
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 12:43:53 PM »

that makes sense

I thought generally dual contact bulbs were for combined use lights

running lights/turnsignals
brake/tail

if the new setup is more modern it is likely that the dual contacts are set up that way for increased rear visibility ( more light on back of bus)

just cut your old connectors off and wire the new ones on approriately
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 12:46:58 PM »

I was really trying to avoid that if possible!

The NEW backup and turn signal lights have 2 wires where the red stop/tail lights have 3 wires!

I don't mind screwing up a light or two but really find it hard to start cutting into the existing wiring harness on the bus! That's why I would rather find out what I can do first!

BS
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Len Silva
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 12:53:05 PM »

Ace, Check the lamp type that goes in there.  It seems to me that some of the later lamps don't use the shell at all for contact, that the filament goes from pin to pin.  If that's the case, I think the bayonet pins will be at the same point on the shell rather than staggered (so the lamp can go in either way).
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 01:00:50 PM »

Len Yes I understand that but here is what I'm trying to accomplish!

Removed the old original (incandescent) lights and in the process of fabricating a polished SS panel to house 8 NEW LED lights. The NEW LED's are pre-wired with a dummy bulb socket plug that replaces the bulb itself which would require NO splicing or wire tracing! Simply remove old bulb, and install new LED plug just as if it were a bulb! That's where the problem lies. As described above, some of the NEW LED's (the red ones) have a dual contact and the clear and amber have a single. The OLD light connectors ALL have single contacts! 

OO   vs   O   on the very bottom, NOT the side!

BS
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Hartley
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 01:09:32 PM »

You are probably wired for separate brake / turn lamp circuits.

You cannot combine them without a relay to work with the separate
circuits.

Find and use the " Trailer/Toad " 24 volt to 12 volt relay diagram.

If you have 24 volts then relay coils need to be 24 volts.
If you only have 12 volts then just wire acordingly.

This will merge your separate brake and turn circuits together to use
the 3-wire lamp assembly.
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 02:11:00 PM »

Ace, here's the way we hooked ours up. For the Amber turn signals pick the ground lead and the brightest of the other two leads. Just wire the odd wire out  of the way. Tail lights are the dimmest of the two. No law against having more than one tail light.  Stop lights being the brighter..same situation applies.

If, when you're finished, the rear of your bus looks like a gigantic Christmas tree you can feel pretty confident that no one will run into the back of it in a fog! Wink

Bob
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Sojourner
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 02:49:54 PM »

Removed the old original (incandescent) lights and in the process of fabricating a polished SS panel to house 8 NEW LED lights. The NEW LED's are pre-wired with a dummy bulb socket plug that replaces the bulb itself which would require NO splicing or wire tracing! Simply remove old bulb, and install new LED plug just as if it were a bulb! That's where the problem lies. As described above, some of the NEW LED's (the red ones) have a dual contact and the clear and amber have a single. The OLD light connectors ALL have single contacts! 

OO   vs   O   on the very bottom, NOT the side!

BS

Now I think I understand what your problem is........Their use to be a kit available in the old days…to be able to tap into inside of bayonet for your needs. It may be still on market? ? ? ?
I suggest getting an old dual contact bayonet and two single contact bulb (broken & cleaned) bases with wires harness in-between. Solder a ground wire to all three shells and each of two wires from dual pins to two individual single contact bulb’s base. You can electrical tape all bare soldered joints into an “ACE Conversion” adapter. Shrink tubing may work if you add several layer of tape to tighten seal from large bulb base to small wire or wires.

Sorry if I am wrong for incorrectly read your post.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 07:07:56 PM by Sojourner » Logged
Blacksheep
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 06:56:19 PM »

OK thinking this might work and correct me if I'm wrong! My bus has a light bucket (plastic) that has two wires going to each one. the wires are connected to brass terminals, one for each wire. One goes to the side and one stays flat on the bottom. The bottom being where the incandescent bulb sits or makes contact! My question is, if I were to install something like this, would it work the same as what is original! The original is hard to describe. It's very elementary in design! ONE flat contact on the bottom that makes contact with the bulb that has ONE single contact on the bottom. Let me also add that the NEW red LED lights have staggered side pins where as the amber and back-up have straight side pins! The amber and B/U work fine as they are! The RED ones are the double contact lights where my bus has a single! I was wondering if going to a two contact socket like this for the RED lights would work!

Thanks
BS

Also in the other pic you can see the NEW LED's with the plug socket on the end that simply (Huh) goes into your existing socket!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 07:02:38 PM by Blacksheep » Logged
Sojourner
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 07:10:26 PM »

The RED ones are the double contact lights where my bus has a single! I was wondering if going to a two contact socket like this for the RED lights would work!

Thanks
BS

Also in the other pic you can see the NEW LED's with the plug socket on the end that simply (Huh) goes into your existing socket!


Yes....if the first photo is the pigtails from the double contact socket assembly. Take the old single contact bulb....break the globe & clean broken glass from it......rosin core solder its wire to filament's post. Or order the single contact ends from them that made the Leds lite.

Let us know the progress.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 07:22:07 PM by Sojourner » Logged
Sojourner
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 07:25:27 PM »

BTW...Ace...what brands are those Led Lite or web site?

Thank you.

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 07:26:31 PM »

Jerry I don't understand the breaking of the bulb! Thr New LED'S are equipped to screw into the socket! That's why I posted the second pic.
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 07:52:14 PM »

If I understand correctly you have the old lights that you want to replace and up date to LED.  But the LED have the dual filament plugs and the old lights had the single filament plugs.

seams like you might have a little problem with out cutting the old plugs off and starting from scratch.  You might be able to find the plugs to match the new lights and wire it that way.

I just bought regular lights from Fleet Pride and used them they had the three wire plugs that are standard for most truck lights.

Wish could help you more.
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1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
Sojourner
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2008, 09:54:38 PM »

I met get 4 of SC Bayonet either 1003, 1041, 1073, 1155, 1056 or any similar size bulb's base.....break off the globe as per above post. And then re-read that post.

Picture of 3 bulb's bases...SC are the ones you need.

Hope this is more clear.

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 10:00:03 PM by Sojourner » Logged
Bob Gil
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2008, 06:30:27 AM »

Jerry I understand what you are saying once you get the wires coming from the bulb bases you can wire them to new scokets and then just plug in the new lights.

I think that sounds like what he is wanting to do.
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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
Blacksheep
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2008, 06:51:36 AM »

Jerry thanks but I think the LED manufacturer has already done that part. If you look at the picture of the red and amber LED's I posted, you will se that the end of the wire has exactly what you describe! The problem is the amber has a single contact which works fine. The RED has a double which does NOT work on my bus connector since it is a single!

Look at the picture and blow it up. You will see that there is NO need to buy bulbs and break them off. No wiring, no soldering!
It's already done!

BS
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2008, 07:14:39 AM »

Jerry thanks but I think the LED manufacturer has already done that part. If you look at the picture of the red and amber LED's I posted, you will se that the end of the wire has exactly what you describe! The problem is the amber has a single contact which works fine. The RED has a double which does NOT work on my bus connector since it is a single!

Look at the picture and blow it up. You will see that there is NO need to buy bulbs and break them off. No wiring, no soldering!
It's already done!

BS

But their base doesn't match your sockets on the red.  So you either need to create an adapter using Jerry's method and attaching it to a socket that does match the LED mfg's base, or you need to replace your socket with the right type.

I understand your reluctance to cut into the original wiring.  But personally that would be my preference.  When you're done, less connections to go wrong.  There should be enough wire coming out to the socket to avoid having to break into the harness.  Just use a diagonal cutter to cut the wire as close to the socket as possible.  Strip back enough insulation to solder the new sockets wires to it.  (be sure to use rosin core solder, not acid core)  Tape it up good.  All done.
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2008, 07:43:29 AM »

HTR yes and that is why I posted the other picture of the NEW socket to see if that would work. Using that, I wouldn't have to cut anything. It simply attaches via the blade connectors and it is 2 wire, not 1 or 3 like most I have seen!
BS
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Sojourner
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2008, 08:28:52 AM »

The RED ones are the double contact lights where my bus has a single! I was wondering if going to a two contact socket like this for the RED lights would work!

Thanks
BS

Also in the other pic you can see the NEW LED's with the plug socket on the end that simply (Huh) goes into your existing socket!


Ace...OK my friend....I am going to ask you a question. Is that first picture of a female double contact bulb's socket is a.....part of pigtail assembly?
If so...clip off the terminal spades and rosin solder to one of SC base onto a open filament's post. After 2 SC base is rosin soldered of each wire from the pigtail assembly.........then rosin solder 2 wires to a DC (double contact) outer metal shell or case for grounding. Then rosin solder the other end of each grd wire to inter side of 2 SC base. Note...you have to carefully remove the resin after glass is broken and remove enough to make room for GRD wire to rosin solder.

OR Better Yet......call the manufacture for 4 pc of wired SC bayonet if they will sell  them separately? ? ?

Sorry for confusion...I forgot to mention the GRD wire need to added to pigtail assy.

Ace, I am glad that you keep asking until it fix and running. It may still not be answered but keep asking because we the bus nut being not in person can cause confusion & slow getting the correct answers.

And it good that you include pictures are a big step to get our points across of whatever problem, many bus nuts need photograh the subject so it nearly like been there to help.

"A Good Picture Can Speak a 1000 Words!"

Whatever, if it answered or not....please keep asking until were both happy.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry

PS...whenever I  see or hear from you....Lakeland, FL & popcorn and great SS (stainless steel) coach.

While I was typing.....slow....you may already correct your problem.

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Blacksheep
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2008, 07:33:57 PM »

Here is what I have determined so far....

Bus connector is a simple 2 wire design. 1 hot going to center of bulb and 1 ground going to side of bulb. This is the way ALL 8 lights are including stop/tail, turn, and back-up!

The NEW led lights are as follows:

back-up and turn signal lights have 2 wires. White wire and black wire. White wire is ground and black wire is hot. These hook up to existing harness and work properly.

 Combination Tail light, stop light have 3 wires. 1 White, 1 black and 1 green. It says on back of light that white wire is ground, black wire is stop light and green wire is tail light. The brass plug or bulb end that is pre wired onto the wires for simplicity has staggered pins on the sides and a double contact on the bottom.

Now today I went an purchased a 2 wire bulb socket from Napa. Came home and hooked the 2 bus wires to it and plugged in the NEW led brass plug with attached LED light. Didn't work! I grounded the plug and it worked fine!

Now my question is, (a different question) are the stop lights supposed to work when the motor is off and no air?  Mine do not! I know they work but today I got nothing when just sitting. I had the batteries on, and the ignition switch on. Stepping on the brake with no air got no results! Tomorrow I will air it up and have it running to see if they work that way!

Thanks for all the help guys! Sooner or later, I will get these lights to work! They sure do look good! It would be a shame for them NOT to work! Smiley

BS
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tekebird
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2008, 07:42:07 PM »

why not use the common ground and the hot from the old applications

Hot from brake to brake light pin, hot from tail to tailight pin, ground from either to ground pin

the hots are likely coming from the relay/switch and the ground is ground....you could ground direct to your tailgate frame if you wanted ....no?



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Sojourner
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2008, 07:59:02 PM »

Yeaaa!
About brake light works without air to the brake chamber's line...no. Air brake system contain air pressure stoplight switch on the outlet side of foot control valve or a tee fitting along that line or junction block. So you need air supply of about 90 psi before testing.

Leds are great.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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TomC
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2008, 10:05:26 PM »

I would wire the two red lights together; the others like the originals.  Good Luck, TomC
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