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Author Topic: Motor cooling tips....  (Read 7530 times)
Chaz
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4108, 8V71 w/auto .


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« on: June 16, 2008, 06:10:24 AM »

I want'em all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Grin  (I'm not greedy, I share.   Roll Eyes Grin Grin)

Well, I figure, "tis' the season", and I seem to be having a mill that wants to get a little hotter than I would like - all of a sudden - so..................what do ya know??? Tricks, tips, etc.....
  Dallas has recommended fabric softener (surfactant) in the coolant to help clean out the radiator but I was wondering about what else would help keep our beloved beasts cool. Things like "scoops" over the radiator opening or an aluminum angle iron on the leading edge of the radiator opening or a taller "flap" underneath or better fan or an extra six pack in the fridge for when I have to stop and let her cool down or......................... whatever.
  It seems like it might be a good topic to have around as a reference. So whatdaya know??

    Chaz
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tekebird
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 06:34:30 AM »

remove your radiator and have it cleaned.  would suggect doing the same to the heater and defroster core at the same time since you will have the system drained.

a splash gaurd as delivered from the factory behind the rear axle.

Tstat that is operating properly.

other than that....Tired Mills produce more heat to do the same work

When it starts to get hot gear down to keep RPM's up

Be certain if you have a hydraulic fan drive that it is working right

a scoop on a gm does very little due to the size of the radiator
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 02:53:24 PM »

Chaz,

I agree with Doug on this.

Did this problem just occur? Or has it been going on since you've owned the bus?

Shorcuts might work for a while, but that only hides the cause.

What temp. have you been running?

I know nothing about GM's, only trying to give you some ideas. Wink

Good Luck,

Paul
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edvanland
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 03:12:41 PM »

Chaz:
Received your reply about wintering, could not answer it.  E mail me at edvan@q.net
ED
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Ed Van
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Cornville, AZ
Chaz
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 04:00:37 PM »

Agreed that doing it right is best, but it "J-U-S-T" gets hot (if you will) after a half hour or better. And it just started that. I can slow down for awhile and it cools off again.
I'm trying Dallas' trick for right now (smells so goooooood!) but I was figuring on playing with getting it more air or whatever, anyway. I know that come middle of summer people start looking at different ways to try and keep the mills a little cooler. (misters, whatever)
 I think I am going to give the idea of an angle iron on the leading edge of the radiator opening a shot and then tape ribbons on the side and cruise down the highway. See what kind of air flow i have.
  I'm just looking for little added extras that can help me and anyone else looking to gain a little extra cooling.
  Tryin to "keep it kool",
      Chaz
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tekebird
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 04:05:51 PM »

chaz,

DON"T put the angle at the front of the Radiator.  That will do two things, cause a bit of low preasure wher you don;t want it, and disturb the airflow, possibly enough to disturb the amount that the fan can suck.

Since it just started doing it first thing I would check is the fan drive.

Is it mechanical or hydraulic.  the Hydraulic will look sort of like a torque converter on a car.

there is a very good chance that the fan is not sucking like it used to.

Second I would pull the tstat out and check it's operation, or at least get an IR thermometer and check on both sides of the Tstat which will give you a good guestimate of what is going on inside.

Third, have you added any coolant lately or any other chemicals to the coolant?
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 04:17:03 PM »

And how hot is it getting? Someone posted recently that the thermostats do not fully open until the temperature gets up to 195 degrees.

Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
roadrunnertex
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 05:00:03 PM »

I can slow down for awhile and it cools off again? Cry
Say how fast are you going when it starts to get Hot? Huh
If your GM Buffalo has the V730 transmission installed was it factory or or did it have the old 4 speed Spicer from the factory?
Does the transmission have the extra oil to air heat exchanger with the regular coolant to oil heat exchanger?
If your fluid drive fan is not turning fast enough when the engine temp get's up in the high temperature range you will have a overheat condition.
You should remove the radiator and remove the top and bottom tanks and have the radiator rodded and cleaned.
I own a P8M4905A with the V730 transmission transplant and if you push it real hard on a hot day 70-75 mph it WILL get a case of the hot's.
Speeds around 60 mph it is a lot cooler running normal temp.180 to190.
Now I have heard of folk's going to a 8/V92 water pump on the engine and the extra air to oil cooler and checking to make sure the radiator fan is working normal and the radiator core is clean and in good condition this solved the over heat problems in their GMC Buffalo.
Just be careful overheating your engine to much can do a costly amout of dammage like cracked heads and other problems.
Good luck and keep us posted.
jlv  Tongue





 
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Dallas
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 05:11:34 PM »

I think before I went to the trouble and expense of removing and rodding out the radiator, heater core, removing and rebuilding the fan drive, I would make certain the temperature gauge is actually correct.

As a "just fer instance", as I'm driving down the road for hours and hours and hours on end, through hills and valley's, inclines and declines, my temperature gauge will sit happily on 180°.
All of a sudden, I look down and my temp has started to climb. Worried, I pull off at the first wide spot I can find, and by this time the temp is up to 210°. I grab my trusty Harbor Freight issue Infrared Laser Non Contact Temperature Gun and check all over the engine. The highest temp I can find on the block or water manifold is 163°.

What is the problem? Turns out that the ground strap from the engine to the body has gone south, causing the gauge to read incorrectly. Also the dash ground is corroded so badly, it's a wonder the gauges work at all.

Bottom Line: Check your grounds

Good Luck,

Dallas 
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fe2_o3
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 10:03:02 PM »

The last time I had that problem it was silica drop out. The silica from the coolant had collected in the bottom of the radiator blocking flow. Pulled the radiator,  cleaned it out, problem solved. Good luck....Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2008, 06:59:18 AM »

About possible incorrect temperature gauge reading….Dallas’s post explain it well.

If the gauge is reading correctly….then read on.

About fabric softener in engine’s coolant…..it is surfactant however it contain ingredient that it was process at below engine’s coolant operating temperature. In other words, it can break down to unwanted substance to add to weaken cooling system flow and possible coating onto heated surface and radiator’s tubing to reduce the heat & cooling transfer.

History:
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Fabric-Softener.html

Many versions of what & how it made:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabric_softener

I could be total wrong because I am not a chemist, but I would remove radiator to remove tanks for plugged cores and fins rotted or unsoldered from tubing.

remove your radiator and have it cleaned.  would suggect doing the same to the heater and defroster core at the same time since you will have the system drained.

a splash gaurd as delivered from the factory behind the rear axle.

Tstat that is operating properly.

other than that....Tired Mills produce more heat to do the same work

When it starts to get hot gear down to keep RPM's up

Be certain if you have a hydraulic fan drive that it is working right

a scoop on a gm does very little due to the size of the radiator


About the “splash guard”…..is a very important improvement to cooling. The purpose is to cause a “vacuum” area behind it under engine & transmission, which mean more fresh air flow through radiator. Better yet add a deflector below radiator’s grille with heavy rubber flap material or longer bottom “tunneling” shield to increase greater vacuum after fan. Some of newer high end bus conversions come with that feature.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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Lin
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2008, 09:06:51 AM »

I had an experience like Dallas on my first motorhome.  The temp gauge would show hotter and hotter the more I drove.  It looked like I was about to overheat, so I pulled over.  The temp gauge immediately dropped and the engine had no signs of overheating (don't you just love the snap, crackle, and pop of an overheated engine).  Anyway, I did not have any high tech equipment, so I duct taped an thermometer to the radiator intake hose which gave a good approximation of the actual temp which hovered around the thermostat rating. 
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belfert
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2008, 09:35:39 AM »

The best thing I ever did to fix my overheating problems was to have the radiator cleaned.  The radiator company found a bunch of pin holes that had been plugged with stop leak.  I ended up having a new core installed instead of trying to patch something that was already questionable.

All of my overheating problems vanished with the new core.  Do note that I have a four stroke engine that is generally less likely to overheat.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Chaz
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2008, 11:26:11 AM »

I'm finally back to continue...... Smiley It's been busy.
 
 I'm hoping I can do some sort of flush without pulling the radiator. Maybe the Downy will do the trick. It just kinda seems right on the edge and hasn't done this before. Even when I was pulling a trailer with a '51 Chevy on it, it didn't overheat.
  I know my temp gauge is not right as I put a mechanical on the motor back in the engine compartment. My dash gauge registers it a little hotter than the motor is, but not sure exactly how much. Jerry Lieber had shot my radiator last fall, at a rally when I just pulled in, with his infrared gun and it showed between 165 and 185 (I'm pretty sure) depending on where he took the reading on the radiator (top/bottom). I understood that to be ok.    Huh I should probably get one of those guns.  Grin
 The splash guard/skirt/mudflap/whatever you call it under the bus that causes the negative pressure is still on my bus. It's in "pretty good shape" except for about 1/4 of it is missing from just the center section. (not much) Maybe it would make a difference to replace that center section.
  By the way, is it better to be as close to the ground as possible or is there a point where it doesn't really matter? I'm probably going to create a flap myself from belting.
 
Quote
Better yet add a deflector below radiator’s grille with heavy rubber flap material or longer bottom “tunneling” shield to increase greater vacuum after fan. Some of newer high end bus conversions come with that feature.
Any chance someone could explain this a little bit better? I'm not sure I am quite getting it. But it sounds like something I could do and it could help.
 
Quote
Say how fast are you going when it starts to get Hot?
  Wish i knew. No speedo. But I can tell you, I wasn't passing anyone. Maybe 60-65 max. I also have the V730 tranny. I think it was an upgrade at some point. (It has the wrong speedo linkage and it was missing the side mounting bracket that I built for it.) I'm not sure about the oil to air heat exchanger. What's it look like?
  Here are a couple shots so maybe one of you can tell me what I have or don't have.  Roll Eyes  Smiley




  (I love the wonders of modern technology! Grin)

  So what is the fan drive? The "cone" that the fan is on? Can you tell from the pix what I have? (Hope so.) If not, I'll get you more.

  Hopefully you guys can address this from what I have posted. I need to get this figured out soon as I am taking a trip July 3rd. I have my deadlines on my latest projects met pretty well, so hopefully I can put a little more time into this effort.
  Thanx for ALL the help!!!! ( I was telling a buddy the next thing I need for the bus is a Lap Top for when I am on the road!!! I am ALWAYS singing the praises of this board!! Told two guys today already!!!  Grin)

  Thanx again,
     Chaz




 
 
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Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
roadrunnertex
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2008, 12:24:38 PM »

Looks like you do not have the air to oil cooler on your coach but you do have the engine coolant to oil cooler between the inside of the rear bumper and the transmission.
You have fluid fan drive on your engine.
I think if it were me I would pull the radiator and have it checked and roded out.
Then that would give you a good idea where you problem is and you can go from there.
You do not want to overheat the old 8V/71 it,s to costly.
I just talked to Nick at Nimco and he has used running take out 8V/71's left hand rotation for $2700.00 each good engines.
jlv
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