Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
August 23, 2014, 12:48:51 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: It will not get torn up or crushed if you back over it with your bus.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Bus Won't Start - Solved!  (Read 6974 times)
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« on: June 11, 2006, 12:49:45 PM »

Hey guys (and gals),

I've been out working on my MC-8 today like I do almost every day.   Wink  I decided to start it just to keep it lubed and, mostly, to hear it run.  It's an 8V71 with a 4-speed manual.  It's been sitting since May '05, but started monthly and moved around the yard some.  The fuel tank was filled before it was delivered, so it has about half a tank of fuel in it still.  Today, it initially started within 1-2 seconds of pressing the starter button.  It ran for a couple of seconds, then cut off.  It did the same thing a second time.  After that, the engine would rotate but without starting.  The bus started and ran great when I started it back in late April. 

So, what's the best way to go about diagnosing this?  I'm thinking it's a fuel issue, as the engine was rebuilt about 30,000 miles ago.  I had the bus serviced before I had it delivered last year and all the filters were replaced.  I'm wondering if I might have algae in the fuel and a clogged filter.  If so, what's the best way to clean this fuel and get rid of the algae?  What's the best way to check for fuel pressure?  I'm thinking that a fuel pressure gauge would be useful to have for monitoring filters.

I'm glad this happened in the driveway instead of on the road, but what now?  I'm new to big Diesels, but am mechanically inclined and have the MCI books (service and parts).  I'd love to hear any suggestions!  Thanks.

David
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 04:26:58 PM by DavidInWilmNC » Logged
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3501





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2006, 12:58:15 PM »

David,

I'm not and MCI guy but this problem has come up a bunch of times on the board.

It is usually caused by fuel delivery failure caused by blocked filters or pump failure.

It can also be caused by accidentally hitting a "stop engine" toggle switch at the rear of the bus whcich is used by mechanics during maintenance.

Your problem sounds just like this and the exact same symptoms are caused by a partially blocked fuel filter.

GMCs have this but don't know about MCIs. This switch is air operated so the engine will start but once the air pressure builds up it stops the engine. It is a very frustrating thing, don't ask me how I know about it!

Please let us know what you find out once you get it running. Follow up helps us all.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
NCbob
Guest

« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2006, 01:25:49 PM »

Dave, sounds like the Emergency air damper might be closed.  Check the 'reload' lever above the roots blower.  If they can't breathe..they can't run.  Other than that I'd look for a birds' nest or something in the air inlet system.  It's 'spring' y'know, and these birds can get pretty industrious.

Have you cracked a vent on the secondary fuel filter to see if you have fuel on the cranking cycle?  If you've got fuel and it'll turn it's an air problem.

Keep us posted....inquiring minds want to know!

NCbob
Logged
FloridaCliff
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2458


"The Mighty GMC"




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2006, 01:29:20 PM »

David,

Exactly what Gusc said.

I have had both happen to me.

The fuel will seep through a clogged filter and let it run for a few minutes until it runs out.

The stop cylinder will have you chasing your tail until you figure it out, but you will never forget Grin

Godd luck.

Cliff

Logged

1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded."
Mark Twain
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2006, 01:55:23 PM »

David,
Unless you have a lot of fuel in the tank that's been there for years, I don't think you have an algae problem.
It almost sounds like the engine lost it's prime, possibly because of a leaky check valve, or even a loose fuel line connection.
You didn't mention smoke, so I wouldn't think that it was the E-shutdown. Besides, with the E-shutdown closed, it will either not start or just barely start.
Like NCBob said, pull the secondary filter and see if it has fuel up to the rim. If not, it's lost it's prime. Try filling it and starting it again.
Check the primary filter and see if it's full. If not fill it too.
If nothing else, try putting a hose from the incoming side of the primary into a jug of diesel and see if it will prime it up that way and run.

Let us know what happens.

Dallas
Logged
Busted Knuckle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6447


6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2006, 03:14:14 PM »

David an easy way to get it primed back up is to get a soap bottle and fill it with diesel fuel then take a plug out of the fuel filter block and press the tip of the soap bottle in the hole and sqeeze while someone cranks it for you, keep squeeze'n fuel in until the bottle is at least 1/2 to 3/4 gone the quickly pull the bottle and use your finger to cover the hole. have your help give a lot of throttle if it roars quickly and responsively it's probably picking up fuel on it's own., put the plug back in and yer set to go! I used to use a electric pump to prime 'em until "The Man himself MAK" let me in on the soap bottle trick!  Thanks Mike it has been a time, and hassle saving tip! BK
Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
NCbob
Guest

« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2006, 05:13:36 PM »

A week or so ago the wife and I were down to Chuck Lott's for a visit.  One of the things he showed me which he did to his bus was the fuel priming system.  A relatively inexpensive Bendix type automotive fuel pump hooked into the fuel system which allowed him to close a switch and prime the entire fuel system.  He told me he puts the new filters up empty...and just hits the switch and "bingo" it's primed.  I don't know all the particulars yet, whether he's got some valves he needs to close in order to accomplish the task at hand,  but you can bet your sweet 'bippie' I'm going to find out. 

For the price of a $60 pump....I need this misery?

FWIW.

NCbob
Logged
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6724





Ignore
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2006, 08:48:05 PM »

Caterpillar recommends that all their filters be installed dry since you can introduce contamination into the fuel system with relatively unfiltered pump fuel.  While the fuel systems on the 2 stroke Detroits will allow some contaminates to go through with their bigger clearances, the new electronic engines are much closer in tolerances and have much finer filters to compensate for this.  So priming your filters with a electric priming pump is the best way to change your fuel filters.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2006, 10:09:53 AM »

Hi Dave,
Check your fuel level with a stick or whatever and verify that your level better than a 1/4 tank.  If an MCI lists to the left, you'll run out of fuel with in spite of a considerable amount of fuel in the tank...
The bus has likely slugged air from somewhere. 
If you have the usual MCI dual fuel filter layout, the secondary filter has a fitting on the discharge side (line to the injectors) where bleeding is possible if you'll install a primer pump.   
I agree with Dallas, that unless you had some really old fuel in your tank, an algae problem is unlikely. 
Air in the mechanical pump will stop you in your tracks.  This is a good time to add a primer pump and sufficient plumbing bits to prime the engine. At a minimum, you'll need a ball valve in the supply line to prevent pumpng back into the tank.  The pump would split (T in before and after)the ball valve. 
If you buy an electric primer (highly recommended) don't buy a fuel injection or high pressure pump.  Use one that is designed for carburetor use.  High pressure pumps will push fuel around (or displace the seal) in the mech fuel pump and fuel up your oil with catastrophic results. 
The same fitting on the secondary filter makes a good point to bleed from and verify that the mech fuel pump has fuel. 
I keep a 2' piece of clear 1/4" tubing that will screw onto a fitting installed on the sec filter.   Some coaches have a pressure switch located at the sec which controls the starter...prevents starter engagement with fuel pressure is present.  If you have a small 2" Delco looking switch at the sec fuel filter, that's where the bleeding takes place.  It's as good as any anyway.
I assuming you don't have the bus aired up with house air?  If so, you may have a skinner valve issue.  The E cutoff should be checked just verify that it isn't partially closed or stuck in some odd position.   Probably verify function for the future.
Bleeding through the mechanical pump, depending on how much air is in the system, may take 15 or more minutes. 
And, don't assume that fuel dripping into the tank from the return line indicates it's bled...may not be. 
You need to get that bus out on the road and exercise it.  Things will "happen" when sitting or run for just a few minites at a time.
FWIW, you should be able to screw a pressure guage into the sec fuel filter fitting and see about 20-30 lbs when cranking at normal crank speed....don't melt the starter while doing this.  It should come right up.  If no pressure, change fuel filters, check for fuel in tank, and it will have to be bled.   A 2 cycle will not self-prime.  The mechanical pump must be provided fuel for it to run.   Anytime air is slugged into the system and it gets to the pump, it dies.  Once you get it started, keep the RPMs up for a bit until it settles down and runs smoothly on all 8 cylinders.  It'll purge whatever small air pockets are left...if you let it run initially at an idle, you'll be dinking around all day.
You could hit it with a small amount of ether and see if it runs....if not, bad...if it does, likely fuel issue. 
Could be mech fuel pump failure...not likely.  Leaking fuel line, leaky return check valve is possible. Low fuel should be ruled out.  Broken or damaged fuel pickup is possible...not likely.  Time for a primer!  If you have fuel pressure when cranking the engine over..the problem isn't the fuel filters. 
Water in the fuel is always a possiblilty, although, the filters would be full of water if that was the case.  Again, not likely.
Keep us posted, JR
Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2006, 10:34:04 AM »

Hi JR,

Thanks for the reply.  I think you've hit on everything I need to check.  I do have the pressure sending unit t on the secondary filter.  That's where I was thinking of adding a T and mounting a fuel pressure gauge.  I guess I'll remove this sender and crank and look for fuel squirting from the hole!  If I don't see any, that would seem to indicate that it's a fuel prime issue.  How do you filter the primer fuel, or does one not worry about that?  Where is the check valve located?

My mus does lean to the left, but it should have at least half a tank.  I had the bus aired up to 120 thanks to my new big air compressor ( to run that 1" lug wrench!).  I doubt if it's the emergency cut-off, as it did run fine for a few seconds.  It sounds a bit odd when it cranks.  I'm guessing that's because I really never hear it crank much.  It generally starts as quick as I can push and release the starter button. 

So, here's the game plan for this evening, unless it rains:
1) Check fuel level
2) Remove sender unit, crank engine, and look for fuel
3) If there's no fuel, remove and fill the filters, reinstall, and start - engine should run for a few seconds
4) If it still won't start, post here and ask new questions!

Thanks guys.  I'll work on it this evening and report back.

David
Logged
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2006, 04:50:42 PM »

NOOOOOOO! Don't remove the sender to crank and watch for fuel....it WILL require bleeding after that.  At a minimum, get a cheap pressure gauge and insert into the switch hole.  Be quick about it.  You can get a cheap pressure guage from Lowes or HD for $8 bucks....look in the well section (water pumps etc)  for cheap guage.  BTW, this $8 buck guage is a temp diagnostic tool, and is not to be used as a permanent guage.  It couldn't handle the heat or vibration...it will establish whether or not the mech pump is working.  Also keep in mind that no pressure doesn't necessarily indicate a bad pump...may just need bleeding.  No pressure does indicate a fuel related issue.
Check valve is located at the bulkhead where the return line attaches to the hard lines.   Also, someone could help here, there may be a check valve right behind the heads where the returns exit the heads...I'm not that familiar with the MUIs.
If you're airing the bus up prior to starting, the skinner valve would cut it off if for some reason a bad electrical connection was made between the ignition master and the skinner valve solenoid.   This action would be visible.  You can see the skinner valve work...someone could watch it and verify that it stays in the "run" position once started.  If the bus isn't aired up, the skinner valve won't close...it defaults to "run" when no air.   MUIs will occasionally start, run up air, and cut off.  You get the point. 
If youi change the fuel filters, even if filled with fuel, the fuel pump and engine lines will have to be bled.  Unless something else turns up, bleeding the fuel system is the most likely temp fix.  I say temp, because it shouldn't allow air incursion...so if that is your problem, look for loose fittings, hard or cracked fuel lines, maybe fuel pump seal, supply line.  Keep check on your motor oil for fuel contamination.  That would indicate a bad fuel pump or injector jumper.  Feel free to pmail me if I can answer any questions...or call. 
Good luck,  JR
Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2006, 05:36:14 PM »

Thanks for all the info, JR.  Unfortunately, a thunderstorm kept me from working on it tonight.  A while back, I remember a couple web pages showing primer pump installations.  I'm sure I saved it as a favorite, but it must be on my pc at work.  Does anybody remember seeing these?  I thought it was somewhere on BNO, but I don't see it there either.  I know it's not all that difficult to do, but it would be handy to see where all the connections actually go.  Thanks!

David
Logged
FloridaCliff
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2458


"The Mighty GMC"




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2006, 05:58:06 PM »

David,

Mine is on the input to the primary fuel filter.

I have a hand primer pump.

I have a 1/4 turn valve inline with the standard fuel line, I turn that off.

On the other side of the tee which feeds into the primary is another 1/4 turnvalve with a nipple that the pump hooks too.

I then just pump out of a spare gallon can of fuel I keep on hand.

Works like a champ

Cliff
Logged

1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded."
Mark Twain
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2006, 07:09:37 PM »

It doesn't matter where the connections go, as long as they are in parallel with the supply line.  You need to be able to shunt the fuel from the supply thru the pump while blocking the supply line.  That is clear as mud. 
The pix you probably saw were posted on the Yahoo MCI site I believe.  The concept is simple.  The goal is to push fuel thru the filters and pump, while preventing return of fuel via the supply line. 
Your best bet with a complete coach is to access the fuel line just in front of the primary fuel filter.  T off the connection  and into the primer pump at the bulkhead fitting.  T back into at the primary filter inlet.  You probably already have a ball valve located above the filter assemblies that shuts off the fuel when changing filters.  Just shut the ball valve off and turn on the primer.   You may want to consider a ball valve in the primer line so that fuel doesn't feed around the primer when changing the filters.   Just keep the primer ball valve closed when in normal operating mode, and open when priming.  The ball valve in the supply line is just the opposite....closed when priming and open when in normal operating mode. 
I'm trying to figure out what I just said....this will work.  I can send pix of the filter ball valve if you need.  I'll have to go down and take a pix, but don't mind.   Let me know if you want a sketch of a primer system.  I could fax it to you.  Pmail me for more.  You've got my cell phone number? 
Cheers, JR
   
Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3501





Ignore
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2006, 09:41:19 PM »

The best place for the primer pump is as close to the tank as possible with some kind of vavle to keep from pumping fuel back into the tank. Since this is a suction system it is easier on the small elect pump to be close to the fuel.

One reason for this location is that it will drive air out of the system if there is a leak somewhere and when the air is out it will pump fuel out at the same location and show you where the leak is.

If you have it near the filter and there is a leak between the filter and the tank it will just suck in more air.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
ChuckMC8
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288


1977 MC8 and 1993 102C3 Temple Ga #322 F&AM




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2006, 05:13:54 AM »

Here's my setup- A stop at Auto Zone (or similar) low pressure 12V fuel pump, Mine is 24V, because I had the pump, and then a stop at Home Depot(or again, similar store) just look at the photo and you can make an easy list. To operate elect pump, close the ball valve (else it just pumps fuel back to the tank!). I put the on/off switch in the rear remote box at the back door.

This setup is on an MC8, 2 year old photo. It made me cringe to see the grease on the bulkhead!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 05:15:53 AM by ChuckMC8 » Logged

Far better is it to dare mighty things,to win glorious triumphs,even though they may be checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much,because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.  Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919)
Busted Knuckle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6447


6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2006, 09:30:41 AM »

Nice set up Chuck and almost just like my mobile set up ('cept I left mine mobile for service calls, and such! ) BK
Smiley Wink Cheesy We hav'n the " TN Fall Bus Bash" at Knuckle's, we gonna party at Knuckle's  Roll Eyes Cool Grin
Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 10:44:54 AM »

The best place for the primer pump is as close to the tank as possible with some kind of vavle to keep from pumping fuel back into the tank. Since this is a suction system it is easier on the small elect pump to be close to the fuel.

One reason for this location is that it will drive air out of the system if there is a leak somewhere and when the air is out it will pump fuel out at the same location and show you where the leak is.

If you have it near the filter and there is a leak between the filter and the tank it will just suck in more air.

While I agree that the tank end is preferable, an MCI isn't the easiest unit to get into the fuel line.
NJT installed a primer in the front.   Installing in the rear is way easier, and the presence of are in the line would be a dx negative...then one would have the opportunity to check backwards until the leak is resolved. 
Chuck's pix is exactly what I'd do had I not had an OEM primer installed.   The clear lines are a good idea too...wouldn't have thought of that touch. 
The pump could also be inserted just ahead of the primary filter. 
Best, JR
Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
El-Sonador
Guest

« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2006, 12:47:27 PM »

I'm no expert, but if relating a problem I had on my MC-9 [8v71 may help...

I was in for routine fuel filters, the boys in the shop failed to keep my fuel lines and the new filters full and tried to re-start my bus... Obviously it would not re-start due to air in the system.

I made them stop trying to start it and insisted that they run a shop air line into my fuel tank and put the fuel tank under pressure while trying the re-start. The pressurized air in the tank forced the fuel through the empty fuel lines and fuel filters until it ran on its own. Took less than a minute.

I don't know if this would help your situation out or not, but I don't think it would hurt and it did work for me. Just be careful that you don't abuse your starter.

IF... you suspect algae in the fuel, the marine industry suffers from that a lot and they sell an additive to kill the algae and prevent it from forming. That wouldn't hurt to try that also...

That's about all the 2 cents I have on this one...

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful... Let us know how you make out...


Steve
Logged
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2006, 04:26:47 PM »

Ok, here's an update.  I tried starting and it sounded like it might start... for a second.  I removed the primary fuel filter.  It was completely full of fuel.  I had a friend crank it with my hand under the exhaust pipe.  A puff of air came out, then very little.  It smells really bad - much worse than usual!  It's got this acrid, bitter smell that reminds me of a gasoline engine running way too rich when you cut it off (like old V8's that would 'diesel' when turned off).  It sounds kind of funny, too.  It reminds me of how my Honda sounded when the timing belt broke.  Of course, I'm not sure what an 8V-71 should sound like.  I didn't get a chance to check anything else, as it started raining. 

I looked for the em. shut down, but I don't know what it looks like.  I couldn't find it at all in either the parts or service manuals.  If anybody can point me in the direction as to what it looks like/ where it's located, I'd appreciate it.

I'm thinking I need to check the following

1) air intake for obstructions
2) fuel for flow, opening the return pipe would be the easiest way, a pressure gauge  on the 2nd filter would work too
3) check the em. shut down
4) check the blower for operation

I'll check those things, plus anything else anybody can suggest.  I just hope it's nothing serious!  Thanks, as always.

David
Logged
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2006, 07:46:47 PM »

Come on, guys!  I know somebody has to have an idea of what's wrong.   Wink  I really need a shop to work on this... trying to work on a bus engine in the rains sucks!  Thanks.

David
Logged
Ross
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 406


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2006, 07:58:04 PM »

Come on, guys!  I know somebody has to have an idea of what's wrong.   Wink  I really need a shop to work on this... trying to work on a bus engine in the rains sucks!  Thanks.

David

The nice thing about these old two strokes is if they have compression, fuel and air, they will run.  If it wont run, you must be missing one of these.  If it ran prior to a filter change, I'd bet on fuel.  If you haven't added a primer pump yet, that would be a logical next step.
Logged
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2006, 08:06:14 PM »

The nice thing about these old two strokes is if they have compression, fuel and air, they will run.  If it wont run, you must be missing one of these.  If it ran prior to a filter change, I'd bet on fuel.  If you haven't added a primer pump yet, that would be a logical next step.

Hi Ross,
No filter changes here... not since last year anyway.  I just removed one to see if it had fuel, which it did.  Thanks!

David
Logged
littlehouse
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 42




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2006, 08:43:18 PM »

hi david
maybe you should'nt over think things, you said the bus was running so something happend while it was sitting. like the bird nest
in the tail pipe. we were with family in Fl. when i let the grandkids in the bus, it was full of work stuff, sooo all they could do was
stand by the drivers seat and see how big it was. two days later it would'nt start, like yours alittle bit then nothing, i tryed everything
filter, tank, primer pump lines,then i pulled the blower and found abig plate down thight on the intake"emer. shut off". one of the kids had fliped the switch up front. i don't know if this helps at all but i wish you lots of lock.
ray with the littlehouse          i tryed to post earlyer but no luck so maybe it will post twice, if so sorry
Logged

I want to live long enough to be a nuisance to my children
and i am!!
El-Sonador
Guest

« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2006, 08:45:56 PM »

Quote

I looked for the em. shut down, but I don't know what it looks like.  I couldn't find it at all in either the parts or service manuals.  If anybody can point me in the direction as to what it looks like/ where it's located, I'd appreciate it.


IF... you are talking about the emergency air damper shut down, it is located on the top center of the engine. There is a lever there that you can manually trip to shut down the air supply going into the engine, in the event of a "run-away" There is also a switch on your dash to electrically trip this damper. But it must be re-set manually by re-opening this damper at the engine.

I have done this a few times, once to test the system, but that was several years ago. I carry a sawed off broom handle in the curb side engine compartment that I used to trip the air damper to manually shut it down. Kinda of scary sticking your face into a run-away engine... This is a good location to access this damper. I also had to do this one other time when my accelerator jammed open in the full throttle position. I hit the emergency kill switch but it didn't work, had to run back to the engine compartment to do the manual shut down.

I too looked for the longest time through all my manuals for you. but I could not find it in there either.

I hope someone here that is more familiar with this can chime in here on this.


I know how frustrating this must be for you...


Steve
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 08:48:21 PM by El Soñador™ » Logged
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3501





Ignore
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2006, 09:57:33 PM »

David,

Fuel from a diesel exhaust that isn't burned really stinks. This is very common on DDs when first started in cold weather. The Cat 3208 stinks like this even in warm weather when it first starts.

The emergency shut off valve is actually a metal flapper that covers the intake to the engine blower. There should be a toggle switch on your dash to operate this valve. It blocks all air so the engine cannot start.

671s have this valve but somewhere I think I read that 8V71s don't all have this, I don't know for sure.

I wasn't talking about this valve. The one I mentioned in my first post is for use by mechanics working at the rear so they don't have to go forward to stop the engine. There is also a start switch on the same panel at the rear. MCIs may not have these switches.

JR,

Fortunately the 4104/06s have a top hinged door over the fuel tank that looks like a baggage door, it is very easy to access.

Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
ceieio
MCI 7 DD 8V71, HT740
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 114


1973 MCI 7




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2006, 10:43:04 PM »

OK - so I did a little flash photography tonight... I am pointing to the emergency stop on the 8V71 in my MCI.  You will notice the catch mechanism that holds the shaft from rotating at the end of my finger.  (You may also notice the WD40 I sprayed all over last weekend.   Be polite and pretend I just cleaned everything up back there, which I will, real soon now). 

You can make out the shut off shaft just above the hose in the photo, running back under the lid with MCI cast into it.  There is a "handle" that is pointing off at about the 2 o'clock position (arrow).   This photo shows the emergency shutoff in the normal "run" position.  If the emergency stop is tripped, the "handle" would be rotated counter clockwise from its current position, and the notch in the shaft would be disengaged from the catch.

To reset, grab the handle and rotate it clockwise until the catch seats in the notch.

I hope the picture does better than my words!

Best Regards,
Craig - MC7 Oregon
Logged

Craig MC7 - Oregon USA
ceieio
MCI 7 DD 8V71, HT740
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 114


1973 MCI 7




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2006, 10:50:45 PM »

I suppose I should have mentioned that the shutoff is right at the back end of the engine (as mounted in a bus).  Just look past the blower drive belt and you should see the shutoff mechanism back there just a few inches behind of the fan-drive belt, slightly to the curbside of the engine centerline.

Craig - MC7 Oregon
Logged

Craig MC7 - Oregon USA
NCbob
Guest

« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2006, 03:52:58 AM »

I didn't review all the posts but David, did you try running the engine on an alternate source of fuel...like a 5 gallon can of fresh feul from the local Station?  It'll run fine on Kerosene if that's all you can find locally.

NCbob 
Logged
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2006, 04:26:02 PM »

Ok, so now I feel like an idiot.  NCbob, littlehouse, El Soñador, gusc, and ceieio were right on.  It was the emergency shut off.  I'm not sure how or when it tripped, as I always keep the master switch turned off.  The funny thing is, it's not mentioned in any parts or service manuals and is different from the pic Craig posted, but I imagine that there were some changes over the years from the MC-7's to the -8's.  That pic is what got me going... thanks Craig!  In the process, I removed my air cleaner - very nasty, and am doing a few other things.  This problem had me stumped, but now I know that the shut off works and know how to reset the damned thing!  I'll also be installing a fuel primer as so many have suggested.  Thanks ChuckMC8 for the pics.  That's probably how I'll install mine.  Anyway, I appreciate everybody's help, input, and suggestions.

David
Logged
Busted Knuckle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6447


6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2006, 04:30:05 PM »

Well David, I wasn't much help to you on this subject but I'm glad ya got it solved! Good to hear it ws a silly little thing, easy to rememidy also! BK
Smiley Wink Cheesy We gonna Party at the "TN Fall Bus Bash" at Knuckle's  Roll Eyes Cool Grin
Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
El-Sonador
Guest

« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2006, 04:54:57 PM »




                        yipeeeeeeee
Logged
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3501





Ignore
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2006, 06:16:12 PM »

David,

Glad you found the problem, I know very well the feeling.

In my case it wasn't the emergency switch but the mechanic's switch at the rear that I accidentally hit-got the same results!

I've never used my emergency shutoff switch but need to test it  (with the engine off).

I'm going to put a switch guard on mine because it is dangerously close to the reversing switch-a really bad location.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 02:35:40 PM by gusc » Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
littlehouse
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 42




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2006, 09:28:26 PM »

david
so glad it worked, wish i had remembered sooner, but beleave it or not it was my better half who said "remember how frustrated
you were when that happened to you" so she gets all the credit. hope all your problems are that easey.
ray with the littlehouse some where south of seattle

Logged

I want to live long enough to be a nuisance to my children
and i am!!
NCbob
Guest

« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2006, 02:32:34 AM »

So happy to find that it wasn't anything major.  Your quandry brought the Emergency air shutdown to mind when you first wrote because some years ago, when I was running boats, one of the Boss' kids simply couldn't resist pulling that pretty chrome Tee handle on the side of the helm while he was playing "Captain".  Sad

It liked to have drove me nuts trying to figure out why one engine wouldn't start when it was time to leave.  Fortunately the look on his face (brought be immediately back to my mischievious youth) caused me to go to the engine room and check the damper first.

All's well that ends well! Wink
Logged
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2006, 02:47:06 AM »

Glad to hear you got it figured out Dave!

Now you can get the old girl out and drive her around ..... like down this way or up toward Nick and Bruces get together in Delaware!

Dallas
Logged
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2006, 05:25:04 AM »

NOW I reckon you'll have that bus at Timmonsville???  Your only excuse for not bringing it has been resolved. Wink
Don't it feel good once problem's sorted out, and look at how much knowledge you walk away with from these sorts of events.
Take the bus out for some exercise!
Cheers, JR
Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2006, 09:10:51 AM »

NOW I reckon you'll have that bus at Timmonsville???  Your only excuse for not bringing it has been resolved. Wink
Don't it feel good once problem's sorted out, and look at how much knowledge you walk away with from these sorts of events.
Take the bus out for some exercise!
Cheers, JR


That's right JR!
A tin tent is lots better than no tent, and every tin tent is better than any S&S...... mostly.
Besides, a detroit doesn't like being hemmed in. They can't breath unless they can run free. Ask FF what happens to a DD that sits. Bad things, corrosion, rust, mouse houses, mould mildew, black stuff in the tank, just to mention a few.
If nothing else bring her down for a weekend and you and I can go through lots of stuff to make her a better and happier coach all the way around.
Remember, there is a motel across the freeway and we do have some cabins.

Cat would like to have you down here and so would I.
We also have lots of people to intro duce you to.

Dallas

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!