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Author Topic: What can WE do about oil prices? Possibly OT  (Read 3489 times)
NCbob
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2008, 04:28:29 PM »

I wouldn't wish to see any posts, or this thread for that matter, deleted for not complying with the Rules.

If we can, without prejudice, get back to the subject line...I for one...would sit back and be happy to listen.

Bob 
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2008, 05:10:38 PM »

Bob,
    Back to the subject line.  We live in a society where "political" process affects most everything so the things we can do about oil prices inevitably involve politics.  Unless we own an oil company the only things we can do are influence our political representatives.  Our political representatives can influence supply and demand through incentives and or penalties, but they can't change the physical reality that oil is a finite resource and other nations are wanting more.  The status quo has strong political backing and any change from it will impact somebody's profits.  A major shift to wind, hydro, solar, and nuclear to generate most of our electricity would certainly reduce demand for oil and gas and lower both oil prices and oil company profits.  A massive investment in CNG vehicles and fueling infrastructure would also help significantly, especially if accompanied by reducing the need for natural gas to generate electricity.   Simply allowing drilling anywhere might improve supply but since there are 68 million acres that have been leased but undeveloped, it doesn't seem this will help.  Maybe we need to think about a penalty tax rate for those not drilling on leases they hold.  Let's brainstorm this.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
 
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2008, 06:08:15 PM »

this subject keeps coming up on a regular basis.

the last two times caused me to make a few comments as to why oil prices are high.

for some reason, my posts were eliminated.

why are my ideas less important than the others?

gary t'berry
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We, as moderators do not delete posts out of hand.

The only time that we will delete a post is if it fails to follow the rules of the board. No other posts have been, are now or will be deleted.

Any post that comes close to being questionable gets moved to the moderators board for review. if the big Kuhuna thinks it's acceptable, we return it to it's spot.

I really hate when people decide we are deleting posts and we aren't.

Dallas

And if you check who is on the board when you check in you will find that generally there is at least one moderator signed on at about any time of the day or night. I suspect that is why Phil and MAK decided on several moderators so that if any flame wars got started it could hopefully be nipped in the bud. So far that seems to have worked out very well and I do not think anything has been deleted for several months. So you guys and gals have been doing a terrific job and we all thank you for that.

Richard

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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2008, 07:07:55 PM »

Hello          you cannot do this without being political.   The politicos are running the show .   ie  making the policy.
    So  a word about nuclear power.   When it was first touted  it was going to be almost free limitless energy..   ha  ha    .   I remember the adds.    Ok   A fact.  nuclear power has never been profitable..  never.   Subsidies have always been needed to prop up the industry. The greens succeeded removing the subsidies   3 times but a a very powerful senator had them tacked onto bills  very successfully and very quietly.  So subsidies are back.  so are new plants;  being licensed that will require more subsidies.
     The long term concern that i have about nukers is the spent fuel storage which has to be onsite because nothing can be shipped after use.   So this great pool of nice hot stuff..  real dirty stuff by the way ; is sitting there causing all the jihadists to have ectasy dreams thinking about the possibilities.
     SO   enough about nukers     what about oil       big subject    do you know the answers to your questions?.  can you find the answers ?     A pretty difficult answer because the energy companies dont want you to know about costs and where the oil goes.
       Question   How much of the USA crude   stays in the USA.  how much goes abroad?     Should any go abroad.?   You will be surprised at the answers to those questions.   
        Coal      great stuff   I am from the Anthracite capital of the world.   By the way anthracite is the cleanest burning of the coal family and it is no winner in that department.   ANybody wanting to know how coal in West Va is mined just take a look at the mining maps..   no more underground stuff.    just remove the mountain on top   take the coal   and fill th hole.   Works well except for the poeple living there and downstream.   Oh by the way whole towns have disappeared because of flooding  and bad water.
        THe coal companies own one of the networks thats why you see the new clean coal  adds...    LOL

           SO the bottom line is   things are tough  and going to get worse.   Just don't believe the party line because its probably not true..  You just need to pick the best of the evils..       Do you really want 8 more years of the same..  loved it     bring it on   my kids and grandkids  can worry about it       who  me  no  not me   ..     

     I always say Happy Bussin    at the end    but it gets  harder to believe it..  Mike
         
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Melbo
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2008, 07:10:00 PM »

WOW

And this hasn't gotten ugly

I really like that

Lots of posts in a very short time and very civil and really non political

My only question is who said that oil is  a finite resource?Huh

And why would anyone believe him??

I really think that a new paradigm on this subject would be helpful

Keep on drilling and keep on discovering and keep on driving -- this is just a blib in the system

Melbo --- AND KEEP IT POSITIVE
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2008, 07:43:42 PM »

WOW

And this hasn't gotten ugly

I really like that

Lots of posts in a very short time and very civil and really non political

My only question is who said that oil is  a finite resource?Huh

And why would anyone believe him??

I really think that a new paradigm on this subject would be helpful

Keep on drilling and keep on discovering and keep on driving -- this is just a blib in the system

Melbo --- AND KEEP IT POSITIVE

I wouldn't be surprised if there turned out to be massive oil basins out under the deep ocean floors.  But it won't be easy to drill there.

Too bad we can't set up wind generators all around the Congressional building.  Capture all the hot air blowing out of there.   Grin
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2008, 07:50:37 PM »

Hello          you cannot do this without being political.   The politicos are running the show .   ie  making the policy.
    So  a word about nuclear power.   When it was first touted  it was going to be almost free limitless energy..   ha  ha    .   I remember the adds.    Ok   A fact.  nuclear power has never been profitable..  never.   Subsidies have always been needed to prop up the industry. The greens succeeded removing the subsidies   3 times but a a very powerful senator had them tacked onto bills  very successfully and very quietly.  So subsidies are back.  so are new plants;  being licensed that will require more subsidies.
     The long term concern that i have about nukers is the spent fuel storage which has to be onsite because nothing can be shipped after use.   So this great pool of nice hot stuff..  real dirty stuff by the way ; is sitting there causing all the jihadists to have ectasy dreams thinking about the possibilities.
     SO   enough about nukers     what about oil       big subject    do you know the answers to your questions?.  can you find the answers ?     A pretty difficult answer because the energy companies dont want you to know about costs and where the oil goes.
       Question   How much of the USA crude   stays in the USA.  how much goes abroad?     Should any go abroad.?   You will be surprised at the answers to those questions.   
        Coal      great stuff   I am from the Anthracite capital of the world.   By the way anthracite is the cleanest burning of the coal family and it is no winner in that department.   ANybody wanting to know how coal in West Va is mined just take a look at the mining maps..   no more underground stuff.    just remove the mountain on top   take the coal   and fill th hole.   Works well except for the poeple living there and downstream.   Oh by the way whole towns have disappeared because of flooding  and bad water.
        THe coal companies own one of the networks thats why you see the new clean coal  adds...    LOL

           SO the bottom line is   things are tough  and going to get worse.   Just don't believe the party line because its probably not true..  You just need to pick the best of the evils..       Do you really want 8 more years of the same..  loved it     bring it on   my kids and grandkids  can worry about it       who  me  no  not me   ..     

     I always say Happy Bussin    at the end    but it gets  harder to believe it..  Mike
         

Gads.  No hope at all.  Reckon I'll sell the bus now.  Bummer.
Maybe not.  Wink
The only reason nuclear power generation is so expensive is related to our environmental laws and  liability lawyers.  France derives over 75% of their electrical power from nuclear generation. 
The storage problem is resolved with Yucca Mountain repository...but the environmentalists are blocking the process. 
Regarding strip mining...I reckon it ain't pretty, but I wonder how many West Virginians would just as soon give up employment to save a mountaintop so some rich guy can go birding?  I don't know. 
This 'green' crap is going to derail our economy to a point that will negatively affect the environment.  Poor folk are not environmentally friendly.  Hungry people are downright destructive.   If I get hungry, I got trees to burn and I'd poach anything that flies or can be found on the hoof...or paws, or whatever.
Anarchy works too.  Not too good for bus'n. 
Notice I didn't mention any political parties!  Now I will.  Yesterday I wouldn't have voted for McCain under any circumstances...(wouldn't vote for the big "O" obviously), but today McCain wants to build 45 nuclear generaters....JOHN MY MAN!  And he wants to allow offshore drilling...probably knowing full well that there isn't an deep water drilling ship available to US oil companies and won't be for plus 5 years.  For myriad reasons, oil development has been underserved for 30 years.  We are starting up in a poor position.  Most oil using countrys are way ahead of us in locating and accessing crude. 
America first.... Those days are over.
Everyone is trying to get into the oceans for oil.  Brazil has located a huge deposit 200 miles offshore.
China is sucking our oil by sidekicking into our oil fields just South of Florida.  Does this for Cuba. 
China is busy locking up some oil.   They won't need it once the big American crash is complete. 
I'd bet the House of Saud is about to poop over oil prices.  They know that there's billions of  barrels of oil to be extracted, and extracted it will be at todays prices...which will promptly force the costs down. 
BTW, there are something like 69 new oil drill rigs in North Dakota...it's getting going.  Just slow.   
Have a happy petrol free day! 
I gotta go out and hug my electric car!   JR



 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2008, 07:54:12 PM »

Melbo,
     The better question is why would anyone say oil was not a finite resource?  T Boone Pickens built a fortune in the oil business and was trained as a geologist but he has said he believes in 'peak oil'. And is now developing the world's largest wind farm.       http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/   has plenty of quotes and references to support the finite oil paradigm.  Accepting that oil is finite and planning accordingly has much less risk if the assumption is wrong than accepting the 'delusion' of infinite oil.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
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cody
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2008, 08:06:49 PM »

I guess if a person took into concideration all the 'known' reserves, oil would be concidered running low but then factor in fields that have yet to be discovered and I think the picture is still ok for a while, true, eventually the oil will run out, we're using it up a lot faster than mother nature can replace it, we just have to get used to the idea that cheap oil is a thing of the past, the powers that be have gotten us used to paying more than we should have to, now a minor drop in price would be welcomed by us all.  One good thing that came out of the oil crunch is right here in front of us, we're all discussing it and trying to work out a solution to the problem, if oil was still cheap would any of us really care?
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2008, 08:17:27 PM »

Of course oil is a finite resource.  But as Cody pointed out and I alluded to previously, I believe there are massive reserves not yet tapped.  Some is on oil leases squated on by oil companies.  But much more is likely out under the open seas.  5 years wait on the ships?  With the proper dedication and motivation, I'll bet they could build them faster. 

Oh yes, and then there is Antarctica.  Since global warming is going to melt down the ice, it could provide oil to the next couple generations out.

But I still believe we need to pursue alternative, renewable sources with extreme haste.  Not because the supplies will be gone soon, but because otherwise, our all our money will have all been transfered to those countries supplying our addiction.
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2008, 08:48:43 PM »

So oil can't be grown by algae or by plants made by animals or produced by the earth

I guess you all are right it is finite and we should all sell our buses and dig a big hole and crawl inside and die

Sorry that I was optimistic about our future

Melbo
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cody
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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2008, 09:21:07 PM »

Don't you just hate reality?  My version of reality is that I'm still going to enjoy the bus, still going to visit my friends, still make a little sawdust now and then, only difference is that once I run out of money, I'll start on the kids inheritance lol. One thing that I see that really helps us all out is this family of busnuts, we have incredible mechanics, welders, electrical gurus, a fairly competant sawdust piler, it seems we have all the workings to make a bus do what ever it needs to do, now for the brainfart, why are we spending good hard earned money on outside mechanics and contracting from outside our little community to get the work done that we all need to do from time to time.  I see people pitching in all the time, whenever we put a few hundred dollars into a shops hands it is used to do foolish things with, like pay for workers, pay electric bills, pay insurance and stuff like that when it could be gracefully put into the hands of a board member that would instantly and gleefully run down to the local fuel stop and fill up so he can head to the next rally, ok now, which reality do you like better, mine or the governments lol.
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« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2008, 10:51:22 PM »

Speaking about reality, I saw a great show tonight on Reality TV channel at 10:00 PM. It was called Black Gold and shows drilling for oil. Especially interesting for me as I have two grandsons working in the oil fields now here in WV and PA. It is a new series and will be on next Wednesday nite.

Richard
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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2008, 01:08:07 AM »

Well, Here is what we did in 2003.  We bought four hybrids.  Three Honda Civic Hybrids and one Honda Insight Hybrid.  I think I mentioned before on this site that I have driven from San Jose California to Salt Lake City Utah on less than 13 gallons with the Insight, over the top of Donner Pass at 65 mph and all the way through Nevada and Utah at 75 to 80 mph.  My wife's computer on the Civic Hybrid alway shows close to 45 mpg.  By being careful, driving about 60 mph, I drove her Civic 100 miles with three of us and the computer indicated 49 mpg.  Driving the same way with the Insight, by myself I have done 70 mpg per the computer.  My son is a leadfoot and he gets less than 40 mpg on his Civic.  Now this is fact, not assumption or idle talk!  Either we are getting these mpgs, or the computers are liars!

Now I have an Isuzu diesel 3/4 ton long bed pickup that I can get 34 mpg with if I drive around 55 mph., and is my main work truck.  I get less than 25 if I drive at 70 mph.  This truck has a ladder rack with one extension ladder on it, and a cross box with tools.  It has a 5 speed manual transmission and I have to keep the tire pressure at 36 psi to get the mileage indicated.  I do a little better than what I have indicated as the wheel diameter is larger than the original smaller tires.  By the way, this is with a clean air filter, as you will not get that kind of mileage with a dirty one!  This mileage is also here at sea level with relatively flat driving. 

It is interesting to note that we went to visit our daughter and family in Cincinnati last week.  She has a '96 Yukon, kind of like a suburban.  19 mpg shows on her computer, which is over twice what I have heard these things get.  She gets better fuel mileage than she got with her Chev minivan!  She has 5 girls and one boy, so they can't deal with anything less than 7 passenger.  And luckily that holds 9 so Gpa and Gma can ride too!  And yes they had to remove the center console and add the third seat in front!  I drove this thing, and had fun with the grandchildren as it coasted with no resistance and is certainly a candidate for hybrid techology to regain energy going down the hills around there! 

So this is what we are doing about oil prices.  I do have one car that we will convert to CNG as soon as I find a pump that is reasonable.  This is a no brainer.  We can pump fuel here for about $.95 per gallon equivalent.  Can you believe that in Utah they have rolled back the clock 20 years by having CNG available at local stations for $.64 per gallon equivalent?  Could this have anything to do with Ebay auctions of CNG vehicles that are mostly going to Utah?  Here in Ca, they are screwing us to the wall for $2.12 per gallon at the local airport station last I checked, and they claim to be environmentalists here!!  LOL!!!!  Blue buses are running constantly at the airport with CNG tanks on the roof.  School buses are running here with CNG tanks underneath.  The only car company serious about the evironment is Honda, not Toyota!  You can buy a Honda GX that will do better than 30 mpg on CNG and is the only car that I am aware of that you can still get stickers to drive in the HOV lanes here.  An idea whose time has come with the only hesitation on my part being the Phil Station which is too expensive and too maintenance intensive as far as I am concerned. 

So where is the government on these highly inovative cars?  Well you can't buy a new Insight anymore, because it was 100% made in Japan, and well quotas killed it.  And there are precious few GXes available thanks to no incentives at all to have them in this state.  You should see the learning disabled responses you get when trying to get any information on these cars, from the local gas supplier to the local government.  Even Honda doesn't have any available here in the Bay area, and only one dealer in Southern Ca indicated that they brought in about 30 at the beginning of the year down there.  Can you imagine the ignorance and screwed up marketing and comunity interest in a car that can be filled up at your own home overnight while you are alseep?  That doesn't polute, and will probably last indefinitely!!! 

No, the morons around here are running around in Priuses that polute Canada due to nickel mining according to the internet and have $7,000 batteries in them!  And of all things, Toyota buys ads on the tube and tells us that these are the highest fuel mileage cars and don't polute!!

As mentioned previously here, Honda has fuel cell cars now and is moving ahead while others seem to be in denial and unwilling to get to the job at hand.  Have you seen one of these Smart Cars?  I don't think they can do as well on fuel as a 3 cylinder Geo!  Yet this is called a Smart Car?  You would'nt want to get hit in one of those!  Probably roll like a football down the street, or freeway!  At least the Insight is a low stable unit with wide front wheel stance and narrower rear wheel positioining to give it better than sportscar stability on the road.  And if you are 6 feet tall, you can be comfortable in an Insight.  Not in the dumb car, called the Smart car by Mercedes!!  Uh, they do give you a cigarette plug electric tire inflator with it though! 

Now I don't work for Honda or any of the others mentioned in this post.  But I look for a good idea anywhere I see it.  Let those who want to keep driving fast, and using fuel as they are used to, deal with these higher costs.  The rest of us just need to become a little more iventive and careful.  Why we are still running on $1.50 dollar diesel in our coaches, because we don't go that far.  Bubbles tend to pop given enough time.  Just be patient and let the doomers tell you how fuel will go to $10 a gallon soon.  And of course all else will rise accordingly.  This can keep going until there is a crash.  That is when people will no longer pay what is asked.  Staying home is not all that bad.  Why we have so much more entertainment at home now, and especially those of us who live here in California where we are on vacation weather most of the time anyway.  Why would you want to burn fuel running somewhere else where the weather is worse?  And for those in worse weather places, well that is home.  And home is the best place no matter where it is.  If we stay there, oil prices will take care of themselves, and you can't change them anyway. 

And if you were waiting for a woman president to solve this, it ain't gonna happen.  And if you think a salesman like best described as an Arab American President can solve it, you don't really understand what is going on.  And if you think the other party will solve it, then he better get damned serious about proving that!  Of all the things you can do, reducing your oil consumption is the most effective solution anyone has come up with up till now.  Bill Thoms   

 
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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2008, 06:21:45 AM »

If they are squating on the leases and not exploring, that take them away and give them to somebody that will. ONe of the better ideas I've seen here!!!!!  Mention that one to your rep......
  I keep hearing, takes too long, cant do it, technology not there,  very sloow, ie: not enough rigs for drilling? Ramping up prduction is something we are extreamly good at. We are Americans not Americants.
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