Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
December 19, 2014, 09:03:17 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: It will not be stolen by your mailman or your neighbor who also may be into buses.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: DMV rule regarding conversion in California  (Read 10413 times)
boogiethecat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 634



WWW

Ignore
« on: June 19, 2008, 06:26:28 AM »

Anyone out there know the actual statute or number of the rule that defines an "RV" when converting a school bus to RV? 
A buddy of mine just bought a very nice 40' rear powered Bluebird, went to the DMV to get the registration transferred to his name, and when DIRECTLY asking what was SPECIFICALLY needed to pass inspection to be reclassified as an RV, he was NOT given a straight answer by three different people in a row.

My understanding was that all it takes is a toilet, not necessarily even a permanent one, and perhaps a mattress.  When I did mine all I had in it was a portable pottie, and the guy didn't even care. 
But I'd like to know the actual word-for-word, or even better, the actual rule number so he can quote it to them and have it right next time he drives his bus there to get it inspected.  They were so absurdly non-committal that  he was left totally in the dark...

Cheers
Logged

1962 Crown
San Diego, Ca
tekebird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2263





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 07:14:08 AM »

try 362

Logged
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6971





Ignore
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 08:41:20 AM »

It has to have eating, sleeping, and a toilet (shower not necessary) facilities and not seat more than 15 (then it would still be considered a bus).  This has to be built in facilities (the toilet can be a portable type).  But carrying a Coleman stove with a cooler is not considered eating facilities.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Ray D
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 203





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 09:51:32 AM »

I was told to fill out a "Statement of Facts", available at the DMV, and got my license plates.  It is a legal document for these things.  I did get the run around and you have to keep going and going up till you find someone that knows what they are doing.  I would fill out the statement of facts, go in to get your'e plates and ask for supervisors till someone accepts the document.  It has worked for others too.

Ray D
Logged
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2553


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 10:31:02 AM »

Here's the CVC section (direct link http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc362.htm):

Quote
362.  A "house car" is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached. A motor vehicle to which a camper has been temporarily attached is not a house car except that, for the purposes of Division 11 (commencing with Section 21000) and Division 12 (commencing with Section 24000), a motor vehicle equipped with a camper having an axle that is designed to support a portion of the weight of the camper unit shall be considered a three-axle house car regardless of the method of attachment or manner of registration. A house car shall not be deemed to be a motortruck.



Now, what "designed and equipped for human habitation" means is a matter that is not explicitly defined in the CVC.  Rather, there are administrative guidelines that the DMV has, and there is judicial case law around it.  For example, here is a judgment from the court of appeals regarding the denial of a change in status to "Housecar" of a truck tractor modified with living quarters: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/archive/G032879.PDF.  Finding those in writing is much more difficult than just looking it up on the state's web site.

FWIW, there is nothing at all in any of the other 28 legal codes in California defining this further (although "Housecar" is referenced several times in the Penal and Health & Safety codes, as well as throughout the CVC).

As Tom wrote, the DMV generally wants to see some "permanent" modification for cooking and/or toilet facilities.  But it will definitely depend on what inspector you get when you drive up -- there's really nothing you can point them to in writing.  Note that in the judgment I quoted above, an extensively modified truck tractor was still required to register as a commercial vehicle.

If you get to the DMV, and they refuse "Housecar" status even with permanently installed facilities, ask them to point to whatever regulation they think they're citing.  Or ask for a supervisor.  If none of that works, just go to a different DMV office -- eventually, you'll get someone who knows what they're doing.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
HB of CJ
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1305




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 02:19:54 PM »

Hello boogiethecat...how are you doing?  Crowns forever and all that stuff.  Oregons requirements may be different than Commiefornias, but the nice local friendly Oregon DMV lady said the specifications "were federal in nature" for whatever that is worth.  I made my apppointment and drove the Crown to the local DMV.

To get my 1974 Crown 10-wheeler licensed in Oregon as a motorhome (see above) all I needed was permanent sleeping and cooking facilities.  No toilet required at all.  I screwed a full size bed frame to the floor using turnbuckles and the existing floor bus seat holes.  Tightning the turnbuckes insured a very firm, tight bed frame.

Then I strapped a apartment sized propane stove/oven to the floor in the same fashion, hooked up the gas to a throw-a-way propane bottle and stashed the bottle in the oven compartment.  The top burners worked fine, only obviously the oven could not be used.  No problem there, I never use the thing anyway.

Guess what.  The kind, friendly local Oregon DMV lady just climbed into the driver's seat, looked at the VIN tag on top of the heater mounted on the dashboard, glanced to the rear and asked me if I had cooking and sleeping arrangements.  Yes I answered.  She just smiled and signed off.

That easy.  In 10 minutes I walked out with Oregon motor home plates.  Again, obviously this is a very small mountain valley town in SW Oregon.  What worked for me may not work elsewhere, especially in Commiefornia.  Your results may vary.  I later dated the lady.  He he he.  Crowns forever!  Smiley Smiley Smiley
Logged
Cary and Don
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 674




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2008, 10:08:45 PM »

We found it a lot easier to have the local CHP inspector to come out and look at it.  He verified the numbers on the chassis, talked buses for about a half hour and signed the form.

Don and Cary
GMC4107
Neoplan AN340
Logged

1973 05 Eagle
Neoplan AN340
Tim Strommen
Electronics Geek
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 303



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2008, 02:03:43 PM »

Hello Boogie,

   I had a similar experience that HB of CJ did - only at the Fremont, CA DMV office (east SF Bay Area).  I had my local PD send out a CSO (Community Service Officer), to verify the VIN, and took the form in to the office.  A very short exchange occured:

Clerk: "It's a housecar?"
Me: "Yes."
Clerk: "Diesel?"
Me: "Yes."
Clerk: "That will be $90"
Me: "Can you break 100?"
Clerk: "Yup."

I handed over the cash and he came back with the plates, registration tag, and told me the new title would be mailed within the week.

The trick when dealing with the government - is to say as little as possible and be honest up front... 

-Tim

P.S. Another thing you might want to have your friend look at is: the California DMV Recreational Vehicles and Trailers Handbook.  Make sure that if your friend goes to the DMV he uses the term housecar (if the clerk says "motorhome", make sure that he corrects the clerk [there is no CVC definition for a "motorhome", although the term is defined in the DMV handbook linked in this post]).  If the clerk presses the "motorhome" term he should ask for a supervisor... -T
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 02:16:11 PM by Tim Strommen » Logged

Fremont, CA
1984 Gillig Phantom 40/102
DD 6V92TA (MUI, 275HP) - Allison HT740
Conversion Progress: 10% (9-years invested, 30 to go Smiley)
lyndon
1988 MC-9 DDC 6V92TA Fuller T-11605D
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 120





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2008, 01:44:51 AM »

Make sure that if your friend goes to the DMV he uses the term housecar (if the clerk says "motorhome", make sure that he corrects the clerk [there is no CVC definition for a "motorhome", although the term is defined in the DMV handbook linked in this post]).  If the clerk presses the "motorhome" term he should ask for a supervisor... -T

In Alberta, I tried to register my "coach" as a motorhome, but the computer choked on the serial number. The problem was that they have to fill in 2 serial numbers for the motorhome classification: one for the chassis, and one for the living quarters. The agent tried to use that same number for both, but could not override the error. He called the DMV folks -- we have private registry agents in Alberta -- they said to just register it "Utility" class (no such thing as "housecar" here).

What is utility class, I asked? Same thing as an SUV. So now I have one real big SUV.

Don

P.S. Do all s'n's motorhomes have two serial numbers?
Logged

Don
1988 MC-9
bobofthenorth
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2106



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2008, 01:41:35 PM »

I don't know from 2 serial numbers but that wasn't an issue registering in that more progressive province to the east of you Don.  Mine's registered as a motorhome in the land of living skies.
Logged

R.J.(Bob) Evans
1981 Prevost 8-92, 10 spd
My website
Our weblog
Simply growing older is not the same as living.
Stormcloud
FMCA#407220
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 469




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2008, 05:54:41 PM »

In Manitoba, the registration change from coach to motorhome went something like this.....

Me: "I'd like to change the registration from a seated bus to a motorhome."
Her: "Is there a frig or icebox, and bed in the bus?"
Me: "Yes."
Her: What about a toilet?"
Me: "Yes, theres a toilet also, but it's a porta-potti."
Her: "Thats fine.  Sign here."

No inspections, no hassle.

Some days you get the bear, and some days the bear gets you.

Regards.

Mark


Logged

Mark Morgan    near Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
1972 MCI-7     'PapaBus'  8v-71N MT654 Automatic
happycamperbrat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1813





Ignore
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2010, 01:57:19 PM »

I know this is an old thread, but............. sigh....... the DMV lady gave me wrong information when I registered my bus and now I am having to deal with it (but fortunately the cop let me off the hook and didnt do anything other then a lecture.) This may help others here as well.

Health and Safety CodeRecreational Vehicle, Manufactured Home, Mobilehome, Commercial Coach, Truck Camper, or Floating Home
18010.  "Recreational vehicle" means both of the following:
(a) A motor home, travel trailer, truck camper, or camping trailer, with or without motive power, designed for human habitation for recreational, emergency, or other occupancy, that meets all of the following criteria:

(1) It contains less than 320 square feet of internal living room area, excluding builtin equipment, including, but not limited to, wardrobe, closets, cabinets, kitchen units or fixtures, and bath or toilet rooms.

(2) It contains 400 square feet or less of gross area measured at maximum horizontal projections.

(3) It is built on a single chassis.

(4) It is either self-propelled, truck-mounted, or permanently towable on the highways without a permit.

(b) A park trailer, as defined in Section 18009.3.

(Amended Sec. 2, Ch. 566, Stats. 2000. Effective January 1, 2001.)
Logged

The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
happycamperbrat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1813





Ignore
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2010, 02:04:30 PM »

The strange thing that threw the cop was that I have NON commercial plates with 1 number, 3 letters and 3 numbers which was why the DMV lady told me I didnt have to have a CDL and could put my tags on the back instead of the front.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 03:41:20 PM by happycamperbrat » Logged

The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
happycamperbrat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1813





Ignore
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2010, 02:31:47 PM »

BUT, if it is a "non-commercial" vehicle (which the plates clearly are) then why in the heck would I need a CDL? California only requires CDLs for "commercial" vehicles............... argh!!!
Logged

The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2881





Ignore
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2010, 03:31:54 PM »

Teresa -

You do NOT need a CDL to drive a "housecar" in CA.

UNLESS:

It's a 45-footer, and then you need to have a non-commercial Class B.

Talk about a GREAT way to thoroughly mess up the mind of a DMV technician!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 Now
Fresno CA
happycamperbrat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1813





Ignore
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2010, 03:43:30 PM »

It isnt registered as a "housecar", "rv" or anything. It is registered as a "BU" which is cally gov speak for BUS. I have no idea how the PO did it, but he registered it as a non commercial BUS lol The seats are gone, but the only "living" stuff in there is a portable coleman stove, a few mattresses, a couple ice chests and a bucket (for emergencies lol)
Logged

The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
BG6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 642




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2010, 10:07:51 PM »

It isnt registered as a "housecar", "rv" or anything. It is registered as a "BU" which is cally gov speak for BUS.

I had the same thing happen -- and only found out about it this week, when it was time to renew and it came back as a CV (with those big fees), though it has noncommercial plates.

In this case, someone at DMV didn't put in all of the information on the inspection form, so the title type didn't change.

The difference was over $250, and I have sent an email to DMV to see if they owe me a refund for the amount I paid last year.
Logged
happycamperbrat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1813





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2010, 10:29:35 PM »

So let me get this straight........

1) You showed them that it was converted to either a "housecar" or a "recreational vehicle" and then they did not change the registration classification from a bus?

2) You had to actually have it looked at by someone from the DMV so they could see it was now a motorhome?

3) They actually gave you non commercial plates but still kept it classified as a bus?

Im going to the DMV tomorrow to pay my tags and am baffled as to what I am driving lol (they would be too) But in bus converter language, it is a shell  Grin
Logged

The Little GTO is a 102" wide and 40' long 1983 GMC RTS II and my name is Teresa in case I forgot to sign my post
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2881





Ignore
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2010, 11:13:55 PM »

Teresa -

'm going to the DMV tomorrow to pay my tags and am baffled as to what I am driving, lol (they would be too) But in bus converter language, it is a shell 


Instead of taking your car, take the bus!

But don't use the word "bus" around the technician.  Tell them you're "remodeling a Class A diesel pusher housecar/motorhome," and would they like to come outside and take a look?

See how easy that is?   Grin

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 Now
Fresno CA
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6971





Ignore
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2010, 07:35:05 AM »

To expand on RJ's 45ft remark, it actually is over 40ft, you need a class B non commercial license.  With a normal class C license, you can drive up to a 3 axle housecar AND pull up to a 10,000lb trailer.  No weight specified.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
BG6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 642




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2010, 09:11:57 AM »

What happened to me was an "Earn while you learn" situation.  The gal at the desk had no clue what to do in converting a vehicle from one type to another, and she didn't tell the computer to make the change.  She got a set of normal plates, typed that number in and the computer accepted it.

Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!