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Author Topic: A pirate attempted to stop my bus in an old caddy  (Read 9219 times)
JackConrad
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« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2008, 01:25:47 PM »

Gun control = the ability to hit your target with sufficient caliber to end the situation.

For the best gun control= hold the gun with 2 hands.  Jack
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« Reply #76 on: June 23, 2008, 05:12:01 PM »

CONSTRUCTIVE CONTRIBUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as for what I would have done, I travel armed, I am not a small guy at 6'6" and 260# although I likey would not have stopped.  I would have had someone on the phone.  Slowing down would have been an option too......his ability to get in your bus is limited and your ability to push his car anywhere you want is unlimited, the possibility of severe damage to your bus would have been less as well as any injuries...even to the asshole who was f'ing with you

not knowing your final destination outside of 20 miles from Sparta, I would say that is not the route I would have taken.  although likely shorter by mileage, it was late at night so sightseeing was not the purpose of that route, nor any side fieldtrips to see the biggest ball of twine or something.  I would have planned on going all the way across on 20, able to travel at 65+ mph and have service more readily available if you had any mechanical issues.....something I would be more concerned with at night than during the day.  Most of those small towns roll up the streets after dark, save people who are at bars.

Side note:  When Charter bus companies drive through shi**y areas....all interior lights remain off, This is so those that are likely to stone the bus etc...can't determine if their "neighbors" ( politcally partially correct identifier of ethnic area dwellers) are on board.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 05:43:28 PM by plyonsMC9 » Logged
Dreamscape
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« Reply #77 on: June 23, 2008, 05:40:53 PM »

Side note:  When Charter bus companies drive through shitty areas....all interior lights remain off, This is so those that are likely to stone the bus etc...can't determine if their "neighbors" ( politcally partially correct identifier of ethnic area dwellers) are on board.

Wow Doug,

I think I would have said this.....When Charter bus companies drive through shi**y areas....all interior lights remain off.
You could have left off the last part and the point would have been better taken.

Paul
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« Reply #78 on: June 23, 2008, 05:42:47 PM »

Ethnic dwellers refers to everyone because everyone is ethnic.

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cody
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« Reply #79 on: June 23, 2008, 06:40:41 PM »

I'm lutheran lol.
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« Reply #80 on: June 23, 2008, 07:17:41 PM »

Wow, I really have tried to avoid this thread as it has become a highly debated issue outside of the original post!
But in fact, just today we got a regular safety bulletin from our insurance company that we get 2,3, sometimes 4 times a month (either when ever some really big accident or incident hits them with a claim, or they just get enough worth while tips/tidbits to fill a bulletin to share!) And #1 item in this bulletin is a warning that bus theft and attempted hijackings are on the rise! And all operators should pay extra attention when in dark, and lightly traveled areas if they see any suspicious activity at all. They went on to say that while there have actually been a number of unoccupied buses stolen, to date there were no documented reports or claims for damages of a hijacking actually taking place. But that several operators had informed them of shady characters attempting to stop buses in odd and remote areas for unknown reasons. It went on to say the best solution was to call 911 and report the situation and keep driving to a more populated area if at all possible before stopping!
Now having read this bulletin, I felt it necessary to enlighten our members here. Now most of you who while not operating commercial buses, have some pretty nice looking buses and could very easily fall victim to the same culprits as any charter operator!  Now flame me if you wish, but I've said what I thought should be said regardless of whether or not it's legal to pack, whether or not I should, or would if I could, etc! Now lets give Greg his thread back, and if ya wish to debate gun issues start a thread on it in the "off topic section"
This my opinion, and is only my opinion regardless of how popular or unpopular it makes me! Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2008, 09:05:38 PM »

It seems to me there are a couple of lessons that we all could learn from Greg's experience and BK's comments:
- avoid the bad areas at any time of day but particularly so at night
- don't stop - I have no desire to kill anyone and I hope everyone else who posts here would echo that sentiment.  However, these buses we drive are really hard to stop if we don't want to stop them.  No rusted out caddy is going to keep me stationary.  I don't have to hit him hard, I don't even have to hit him - in bull low he's gonna move.
- use the cell phone - call for help - and keep moving
- keep the lights out - that should be basic common sense - it really bugs me when mama has the lights on after dark anyway

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« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2008, 11:58:47 PM »

Sounds pretty hairy, and I for one believe this, because when someone is high on crack, or heroin or some other narcotic -- logic pretty much tends to go out the window.

Believe me, my main business is driving a taxi in a city of about 40,000 with a serious drug problem for its size, this is something I know about. I've seen people do some pretty crazy things when they are high.

I'm glad you managed to avoid a confrontation with this dirt bag, but I would highly recommend anyone who wants to possibly avoid this situation from good Samaritans to install a CB radio and post a sign with the channel you choose to monitor on the rear or side, then if someone notices you have a problem, they can simply tell you over the CB instead of playing chicken with 12 to 20 tons of bus. Just make sure you don't use channel 9, in most states it is emergency only for calling police.

Especially as most people in cars and light trucks do not realize these vehicles are way too heavy to stop quickly and do not realize the danger they are putting all parties involved in by forcing a quick maneuver that may possibly roll your bus. This may also help in a real emergency of this type, because most state police monitor CB channel 9. CBs will work when cell phones do not.

Just my $ .02 worth!
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« Reply #83 on: June 24, 2008, 10:36:41 PM »

Greg,

Great post.  I, and I am sure many, have profited from yours and others opinion and experience on the original subject.  There might be some of this that drifted a little off topic but I think busses is still embedded in there.  I am glad it wasn't transferred to "off topic".

Thanks again,

John
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« Reply #84 on: June 25, 2008, 07:02:08 AM »

I too believe the fellow was under the influence of something. What an insane decision he made to attempt to stop a 16 ton bus with an old caddy. I do have and use a CB and have actually had a trucker call me a couple of years back and told me that one of my ac covers was getting loose. Thanks for chiming in!

Sounds pretty hairy, and I for one believe this, because when someone is high on crack, or heroin or some other narcotic -- logic pretty much tends to go out the window.

Believe me, my main business is driving a taxi in a city of about 40,000 with a serious drug problem for its size, this is something I know about. I've seen people do some pretty crazy things when they are high.

I'm glad you managed to avoid a confrontation with this dirt bag, but I would highly recommend anyone who wants to possibly avoid this situation from good Samaritans to install a CB radio and post a sign with the channel you choose to monitor on the rear or side, then if someone notices you have a problem, they can simply tell you over the CB instead of playing chicken with 12 to 20 tons of bus. Just make sure you don't use channel 9, in most states it is emergency only for calling police.

Especially as most people in cars and light trucks do not realize these vehicles are way too heavy to stop quickly and do not realize the danger they are putting all parties involved in by forcing a quick maneuver that may possibly roll your bus. This may also help in a real emergency of this type, because most state police monitor CB channel 9. CBs will work when cell phones do not.

Just my $ .02 worth!
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« Reply #85 on: June 25, 2008, 07:34:02 AM »

John,
Thanks for your words and I am glad that most are getting something good from this.

In summary:
1) Stay out of the little dark unpatrolled towns after hours!
2) Stop and spend the night in the populated areas and drive the risky legs of the trip during daylight hours if there is no path around these areas.
3) Avoid a dangerous confrontation.
4) Be prepared to protect your family for those situations that are not avoidable or are unforeseen.
5) Keep your weapon(s) of choice strategically located and in safe storage. For me it is one Glock with backup clips located in a push button S&W safe and within driver's reach.
6) Back up protection that is really hard to beat is a pump style scatter gun. Rack one in the chamber and they will generally run away.
7) Think really hard about the decision of ramming a vehicle at city street speeds. I couldn't have hit the guy if I tried because he is so much smaller and faster and was clearly avoiding contact. A low speed collission would likely not disable the other vehicle and would likely only put you in a position for escalating the confrontation (see three above).
Cool The police were not available to help us. The police still have done nothing to help us or anyone that drives through there in the future. They simply told me what I already know: "That is known as a rough area and you should probably avoid Sparta"
9) Have a plan for your passengers. Where do they go when this or that happens and so forth. If you have a responsible and gun educated other person onboard then make him your back up (gun safe combos and locations etc).
10) Don't drive your big flashy bus through any questionable areas unless you are looking for trouble. Looking back, I can just imagine this fellow seeing all kinds of windfall from robbing, killing, stealing or whatever a dirtbag chooses to do. I have been in some really rough parts of the world but I was prepared for each area. It is what you don't at first expect that can reach out and get you. Be prepared to take care of your family!

Greg,

Great post.  I, and I am sure many, have profited from yours and others opinion and experience on the original subject.  There might be some of this that drifted a little off topic but I think busses is still embedded in there.  I am glad it wasn't transferred to "off topic".

Thanks again,

John
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« Reply #86 on: June 25, 2008, 09:56:01 AM »

In 91, or thereabouts, there was an interesting art. in the SD Union about a RV camp robbery south of Tiejuana on that main highway to Ensanada.  That stretch is, or was at the time, comparatively safe for Gringos.  I camped along side that road a few times when off desert bike riding.  Seems this guy stopped for the night and was dry camping with his family along the beach.  In the light of the campfire at "0 dark thirty" he spied three men sneaking up on his camp and they had circled around his camper.  When he spotted the machetes he went ballistic.  He demanded that they stand clear of his vehicle and show themselves.  They continued their advance and he then spied the third had circled behind him.  He killed one with a single shot and mortally wounded another and winged the third that ran off into the brush and darkness.  He loaded up his family and in-laws and beat feet for the border.  They made it across "before the devil knew they were there".  The first stop, this side of the border,  was at police HQ where he filed an full incident report.

The Mex gummint lodged a formal complaint through their ambassador and demanded that the man be extradited to answer questions.  Turns out the man was a cop from the SD area and said he wasn't going to go peacefully.  The US ambassador said that the US was satisfied that the man had acted in self defense and in defense of his family and that all had been in mortal danger. NO extradition!!!

End of story about the three banditos that took knives to a gun fight. And an unusually happy ending.

HTH those that are opposed to guns at all costs.  I think guns should be closely regulated and you should need to submitt to a background check and maybe attend a training session for safety and liability. but, I want them available for my, and others, protection.

John

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« Reply #87 on: June 25, 2008, 10:19:28 AM »

In that story, things turned out well.  Do not carry a firearm or ammo into Mexico!  If you get caught, they will do you real dirty.  Although the Mexican people are generally kind and hospitable, their government and police are run by thugs.  You do not want them to take notice of you in any way, especially regarding breaking their laws.  Being a law enforcement officer in the US will not help.  It simply makes you better to exploit.  Our agency advise us not to carry a badge or any official ID if traveling in Mexico.  I have observed that warning when traveling to any third world country.
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« Reply #88 on: June 25, 2008, 12:14:51 PM »

Yes, I am near the border too and you will get into extreme hot water if they find even one bullet and no gun. Just a bullet can get a US person a prison sentence in Mexico. Being so close in the McAllen area we do here of people making this mistake and it always costs them large sums of money and a lot of time to get out of hot water. No badges or official ID is the word here too.

In that story, things turned out well.  Do not carry a firearm or ammo into Mexico!  If you get caught, they will do you real dirty.  Although the Mexican people are generally kind and hospitable, their government and police are run by thugs.  You do not want them to take notice of you in any way, especially regarding breaking their laws.  Being a law enforcement officer in the US will not help.  It simply makes you better to exploit.  Our agency advise us not to carry a badge or any official ID if traveling in Mexico.  I have observed that warning when traveling to any third world country.
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« Reply #89 on: June 25, 2008, 01:05:15 PM »

Knives on your person are are also illegal in Mexico. Even a pen-knife on your keychain is too much if the police are looking for reasons to arrest you.

And to be fair, I'm sure if the incident had been reversed (Mexicans camping in US kill attackers in self-defense and flee back across the border), the US would be asking Mexico to send them back, with probably the same result.

It's a judgment call...even when you're in the right, you have to decide what the best course of action in the situation. Stay and deal with local law, or flee the scene of a crime (often a crime itself) to a more favorable jurisdiction. In that case, since the guy was already going to be in real trouble for having a gun, he probably made the best choice.
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