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Author Topic: Radiator temps for solving overheating issue.  (Read 2647 times)
Chaz
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« on: June 26, 2008, 01:26:09 PM »


Hey Guys,
  I just took my baby out for a short jaunt to get some info on the radiator/overheating issue. Here is what i came up with using a buddies infrared gun.
  Looking at the images, you are looking at the outside of the radiator where I took the readings. I broke it down into 16 sections.  Do these look like legit readings or do you think I have a radiator issue?


The bottom line says the motor was turned off.

Also, when I was sitting at the second stop, as I was doing my thing for awhile I went back and the rad. temps started to even out - higher became lower and lower became higher.

I'm probably going to have it cleaned out anyway, but I'd really like you guys opinions. (we'll try to stay off the gun topic for you Teke. Just to reiterate, it was an infrared gun.   Grin)
 Oh, and since I am pulling it out myself and refilling it, any tips or tricks?? Or things to look for? Or ways to put it back together? Or things to do while it's out? ETC. ?

   Keepin it kool,
      Chaz
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tekebird
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 01:42:01 PM »

First, I like the gun topic, just not when I am on a bus board.

Second, I think they are a tad high, but not by too much.  the issue, I think, is the temp of that you had after only 20 miles being that high,

what was the air temp outside?

Also of concern is the 204 coming out of the engine....

I think the cleaning will fix you up.

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tekebird
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 01:54:01 PM »

No hear is my radiator story.

prior to me getting my 04 from the folks, my dad lost a fan blade into the radiator.

Having a running parts 4104 on hand the radiator was just swapped out, no testing other than knowing it workd on the parts bus.
Then I was on my second  PA to CA Trip. Coming out of CO into Utah, she started to get warm on me.  After several stops and hosing down the radiator I limped it into San Diego where I planned on spending a week or so.

Took it to the DD dealer and had the Tstat changed.....test drove ( in the morning) and every looked great.  Spent another couple days in SD. then north to LAWhat do you know, damn thing started getting hot again.

I limped it up to the Sacramento area where I met up with a buddy for a few days.....and then did Donner pass at night for a planned stop in RENO.  \

DD dealer in Reno pulled the radiator. 70% blockage.....new radiator and a few pounds lighter in my wallet I was off to West Yellowstone MT.   Now the thing was still getting a bit warm.

sat it for 3 months in West Yelowstone, and when I left there it was getting on the coolish side.......damn old girl would not get warm....enganged the shutter system, and then it got to an OK op temp but still on the coolish side and she was not making heat in the cabin

Well when I got back to PA I flushed the system to find a bunch of SNOT....which is what I will call the substance that is created when you mix two different types of coolant ( seems somewhere a mechanic had though he was being kind and topped me off) well that seemed to help a bit after 3 flushes, I then pulled the Heater and defroster cores.  Defroster cores had been redone some 20 years prior but the heater core was not done during my families ownership.

Well during the flush I ended up getting about 2.5 gallons of scale, rust and snot out of the frt end of the cooling system.

Figured the higher flow from the new radiator had broken all sorts of crap loose and clogged my heater core which is the first stop of the coolant on the way front.

Refilled and no issues for 5 more years.
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Chaz
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 07:05:02 PM »

Wow. Are those suckers HEAVY!!!  Man!!
 
I got'er out.  Smiley The radiator guy said - and I quote- "Time is money", so i figured while I got it out I may as well strip it apart. Wasn't too bad, at least the bottom anyway. It's getting late so I'm saving the top for tomorrow.  Wink
 
 But here is what I found....
  - No antifreeze. Ok, well, m-a-y-b-e a quart. The gauge didn't even register.
  -The bottom tank had about 3/16" of sludge/rust in it.
   
 I decided to see if I could tell if I had any blockages with a 1/16" stainless steel filler rod and altho I have only gotten thru about 1/4 of them I haven't hit anything solid yet. Is that how they "rod them out" or do they do something else also.

 Reason i ask, I may not take it in if I don't find anything in there. I may just run a pressure tip on my garden hose and hose it out. Whataya think?? I'm even thinking about not taking off the top tank. I'm not sure why I should. Any suggestions??

Also, how would I set up to rinse out the rest of the system? Is there someplace to run a hose in to clean it out? I'd like to go up thru the heater also.

What sort of antifreeze would you guys recommend? I guess it should take about 15 gallons. Dallas said the system holds 29 gallons. (ouch!)

Oh, and where is the thermostat hiding?  Grin I'm thinking about replacing that while I'm at it. But then, we were taught in the NAVY, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!   Grin Grin Grin

Well, tomorrow is another day. Hope to wake up to find some input from you guys.

   Thanx,
      Chaz

 
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2008, 08:32:44 PM »

mine was about the same. lots of sludge in the bottom. I took mine in and they flow tested it and flushed it. said it flowed to spec. they also soaked it and cleaned the fins on the outside. there was probably more crap in the fins than there was inside it. when I took it in I had already washed it out and taken out tons of dirt from the fins but you could not see light thru it. when I got it back it was lighter and you could see light through it. they only charged me $150 to clean it and test it. I didnt have any heat issues but I had to take it out to fix other stuff so I figured it was money well spent. BTW I used a fork lift to take mine out. they are lighter that way.
steve
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2008, 06:33:56 AM »


What sort of antifreeze would you guys recommend? I guess it should take about 15 gallons. Dallas said the system holds 29 gallons. (ouch!)

What I've understood on DD 2 strokes is that the main thing is to use silicate free anti freeze. Within that specification, any brand should work.  I would avoid the 50/50 premix like the plague, it is a rip off.  It is also best to use distilled water, not just tap water.  That way it is mineral free.

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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2008, 07:38:35 AM »

Chaz use only a ethylene glycol base antifreeze in your engine  buy you a good precharged heavy duty antifreeze it will cost you about  12 to 14  dollars a gal and has everything in it for a good balanced system
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tekebird
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2008, 11:00:30 AM »

I USe Cat Antifreeze/coolant, soley because they are closer to me than the DD shop
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Chaz
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« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2008, 02:20:38 PM »

Core is at the shop and gaskets ordered from Luke.

What a mess! I take back my last post. The TOP of the core (tank) was loaded!! Definitely doing some blockage.
 
I told my parts guy what I need in antifreeze and he says "no problem". He says Wix has the precharged additive. I'm going to get that i guess. And altho i have never used distilled water......eh, what the hell. Why not.

I rinsed the whole system - took out plugs, unscrewed petcocks and opened up hoses. Man, what a bunch of nasty stuff. It took a few rinsings from both ends but she seems pretty clean now.
 
I'm going to replace several of the hoses with Green Strip. Dallas says it works the best.

What about the thermostat? I found where it's hiding, but not sure i want to attempt replacing it. It doesn't look quite as easy as a small block!  Roll Eyes Grin  Just in case, anybody know the part # of it? My parts guy says he can get it, but not sure which one of possibly 3 it is. It looks like I would be flirting with becoming a DD mechanic to attempt this little endeavor. Do you think I should replace it while I'm at it or "leave sleeping dogs lie"?

Hey, do our bus's come with a water filter?? I seen it in the manual, but couldn't find it anywhere. Where would it be located?

  Back at it tomorrow.......
   Chaz

(by the way, did I mention the water in my engine sure smells nice?  Grin Grin)

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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2008, 02:31:08 PM »

The Perry water filter on the GMC's were an option it's out in the open mounted on a bracket in the engine compartment and it has a spin on type filter.
Filter will say Perry part number 667800.
I doubt if your coach had the filter if you have not noticed it as of yet. Tongue
jlv Roll Eyes
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Dallas
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2008, 02:42:58 PM »

Chaz,

I have a couple of extra coolant filter housings if you need one, although it would probably cost more than it's worth to put it in the mail.

Dallas
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2008, 03:07:49 PM »

Chaz, DD never said to use distilled water only you can use other water and save money they allow some minerals in the water your inhibitors take care of the impurities.If you have a reverse osmosis system use the water or buy it at a vending machine
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compedgemarine
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2008, 03:09:51 PM »

I used distilled in mine. bought it wallyworld for $.69 a gal. cheapest thing in my bus so far.
steve
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tekebird
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2008, 03:35:39 PM »

coolant filter OEm is bounted on the left ( driver's side) verticle engine compartment support, looks like an oil filter

I'd do the t stat while the system is empty.  nothing more a pain in the @$# than redraining the system.

you ought to pull your heater and defroster cores too... with the increased flow all that crap may go right to your new clean radiator.  besides it's probably been 20 years since the zerks have seen grease in there
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2008, 07:03:41 PM »

Chaz, you do know that there are two t-stats don't you?

Richard
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Chaz
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2008, 09:29:51 PM »

Dang, Richard.  Roll Eyes I did see something about 2 t-stats but haven't gotten that far yet. Guess i need to look at that too. Oh well..............

 Thanx guys,
    Chaz
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2008, 11:33:21 PM »

Go ahead and change the stats. This is the best chance you'll get till you empty the system again. Coolant is expensive. The best question is why not. You're over half way there...Cable
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2008, 07:12:21 AM »

Chaz the thermostats have seals in the housings change those also they are important to the cooling system and can be bought at Napa Auto Parts
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« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2008, 11:57:29 AM »

Pull the heater and defroster exchangers and have them boiled...at least..  They must have junk in them that you don't want in your "clean" system.  Even if the stuff hasn't already clogged them it will soak up the additives in your spendy antifreeze.  Have the colant analyzed after you get the system reassembled and run in so you will have a baseline for future troubleshooting and sched maint.  You are supposed to change the AF on an interval basis but an analysis over rules that and might just advise a additive pac.  Lots a money saved and with the damage coolant can do to the DD 2 stroke, lots of insurance.

John
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Chaz
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« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2008, 10:37:40 AM »

Well, I breezed thru my old posts looking for who wanted to know what it cost to have my radiator done. (I can't seem to find it)
Oh well, I just got my bill today and it was 331.12. As usual for this sorry s.o.b. it was twice what he quoted. But there is noone else around that does it. Couple that with all the other expences............................ damn.

Not a happy camper.........hell, not even camping!!!!

Chaz
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skipn
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« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2008, 11:22:35 AM »

Chaz,

   What was all done to your rad?

 Skip
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« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2008, 12:09:01 PM »

Just for information Chaz,  rodding is about what your were doing, which is running a rod through each tube.  The difference is that the radiator shop should have the right size rod for any size tube.  Further, rodding usually opens up a bunch of leaks since many pin holes are just sealed with crud.  The shop is also well equipped to test and solder, test and solder, etc.
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Chaz
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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2008, 12:38:15 PM »

Just "Boiling it out", rodding it, new gasket (I had one), and new bolts. Whether that is a good deal or not really isn't the point. The place I took it to is VERY well known for such crap. He bends allot of people over. Most are people who don't know any better! (Burns my @$#!) I have done work for him and even sold him a really nice welder for cheap and ALWAYS treated him right. Well, next time, BEND OVER!!! And no grease!!! If he bitches and goes somewhere else, he'll at least know what the score is. He's also the kind of guy who CONTINOUSLY bitches about money! Always trys to beat you down. And yet you should see the 3500 sq.ft. house he built. It wouldn't be so bad if he'd just keep his mouth shut. THAT'S what gets to me. I'm always tickled for people who do well!! It's admirable!!! But I think he thinks that if he pisses and moans enough it will off set the screwin you just took.  Trust me, even his employees will tell you the same thing. By the way, he has a complete auto shop not just a radiator repair. I"d have went elsewhere if there was such a place.

  Done bitchin. (or I'll start sounding like him)   Wink Grin
    Chaz
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skipn
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2008, 12:59:08 PM »

Chaz,

   I can empathize with what happened...next time if you have the time do it yourself
 you have more than enough talent to do it.  For the rod brush you can use a gun cleaning
 rod with the proper caliber trimmed down to fit the rods. I know you can probably out solder
 most of us here...I personally like a high silver content solder rod for patching. soldering
 tank seems (non bolted tanks) pre tin the flats and walk it around adding with the rod.

   If the rods are too small for a barrel brush rod get some coarse copper scrubbies break off a bit
  and use a steel welding rod to push through (bulb the end with a torch). (make sure you clean each tube well before
 assembly.

  When soldering the rods have a very small tip and don't flash the fins.BTDT not good.
   Some use electric pencil tips and higher lead contents.......Oh well

   As a side note the old school baths aren't used (so I've been told) epa probably
   can't even use caustic soda anymore Sad

  FWIW
 Skip
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Chaz
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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2008, 03:53:37 PM »

Thanx Skip for the nice compliment. I have done a couple radiator solder jobs in the past, but just wasn't sure as to what to do on such a grand scale. And time was a factor. And when he said about 90.00 to 150.00 I figured "what the hell". I can concentrate on something else. Oh, and by the way, I took the whole thing apart and marked everything so they didn't even have to do that!!  Nice, huh.
 The tips you gave may come in handy some time....maybe even to one of the other guys! Thanx!! 'preciate it.

I leave with it tomorrow morning at 7:00 for the Louisville NSRA Nationals. I hope it works ok. It did get a little too warm on the last trip to Indy, but I added another gallon of water and replaced the middle "mud flap" underneath so I'm hoping that will make a difference. I have my parts buddy working on finding me a BIG Hayden trany cooler to also put on. (one like, I think, Tom put on his bus) If that doesn't get it, I guess it will be rebuild time.  Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry

Thanx again,
     Chaz
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Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
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