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Author Topic: Tire Questions  (Read 5959 times)
Tom Y
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« on: July 02, 2008, 01:24:36 PM »

I am looking at Dunlop 11r 24.5s. The ones I am looking at are the SP343 and the SP384. Do any of you have any knowledge of these? Are any of you running them on your bus or trucks? Thanks Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2008, 02:17:19 PM »

Hey Tom,
In the truck market, Dunlop tires don't last long at all. On the up side, they are cheap so replacing them cost less. It's like a vicious cycle!!! IMO!!!

What are you looking to pay for tires and where are you located??? I might be able to get you a great tire at a decent price.
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Tom Y
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 07:16:38 PM »

Bill, I am in North West Pa. They want 345.00 for the SP343 and 395.00 for the SP382. I checked with a couple places around here and unless I buy wholesale and mount myself thats it.  Thanks Tom
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 07:31:02 PM »

thats a bit steep for Dunflops.

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Tom Y
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 01:03:53 PM »

Teke, Is there a reason you don't like them? The 384 is made at the Goodyear plant and is like the 395 I think.   Thanks Tom
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2008, 01:36:58 PM »

I know you may want to buy new, but consider trying out all of your local, friendly truck stops and wrecking yards for good "take offs" from trucks that for whatever reason do not need them anymore.  Sometimes great $deals$ can be found.  It works for me.  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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tekebird
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 02:37:09 PM »

I don;lt have any particular distaste for Dunlops but I think that price quote was high for them.

getting takeoffs from a truck yard always leaves the tires suspect to internal damage, and or a possible vibration issue.  You have no idea what the story is on that tire.


Several of the large tire manufacturers several years ago went in together and built a tire plant. none of these tire manufacturers has any interest in the other it was done purely from a money standpoint.

now every 4 months or so they completey retool to build the next brands tires for 4 months of so.

Just because a tire is built in the same plant as another does not mean it is of equal quality.

Back in the 80's there were only two companies that made coolant  for US distribution...but hundreds of brands....all formulated to that brands specs....same for tires and batteries.

I recently bought a pair of Firestones for 250 each mounted and ballanced.......and lets not start a flame war on Firestone

I have never had an issue with any firestone product despite what the popular media wants you to think.

Dunlops should be in the same pricepoint givew or take a few bucks


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Tom Y
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 07:11:37 PM »

What model Firestone did you buy?  Thanks Tom
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2008, 07:38:11 PM »

Don;t recall off hand. 
 they only had a few all position choices in 12r22.5

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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2008, 11:07:57 PM »

I don;lt have any particular distaste for Dunlops but I think that price quote was high for them.

getting takeoffs from a truck yard always leaves the tires suspect to internal damage, and or a possible vibration issue.  You have no idea what the story is on that tire.


Several of the large tire manufacturers several years ago went in together and built a tire plant. none of these tire manufacturers has any interest in the other it was done purely from a money standpoint.

now every 4 months or so they completey retool to build the next brands tires for 4 months of so.

Just because a tire is built in the same plant as another does not mean it is of equal quality.

Back in the 80's there were only two companies that made coolant  for US distribution...but hundreds of brands....all formulated to that brands specs....same for tires and batteries.

I recently bought a pair of Firestones for 250 each mounted and ballanced.......and lets not start a flame war on Firestone

I have never had an issue with any firestone product despite what the popular media wants you to think.

Dunlops should be in the same pricepoint givew or take a few bucks

Doug,
No offense, and definitely not trying to cause a "flame war". But my family has had NOTHING but bad luck with Firestones! Back in the early 70's my dad bought a S&S new that had Firestones on it. The first summer we blew 4 outta 6! All replaced under warranty! The next summer the 4 replaced threw the tread (at different times)! Those again were replaced under warranty. Again less than a yr later all 4 had problems of various types. Dad finally got mad and demanded they take ALL of them off and give him something else! Not sure if Firestone footed the bill (I was only 7 or 8 then) or the manufacture of the MH! But he put Goodyears on it, and we never had another tire problem on that MH. Then in '77 dad bought a brand new Ford LTD Landau (land yacht). And it had Firestones on it, again shortly after buying it they started throwing treads & having blow outs. This time I know for a fact that the dealer paid for and installed new Michelins (after dad threatened to drop it of in the middle of the show room and not use the door!). Then in later yrs I drove a tow truck that came from the factory with Firestones. Yup you guessed it, blow outs right and left! Then in the 90's I bought a brand new Peterbilt and it had Firestones on it, less than 30,000 miles later I'd blown 3 out of 10. I had them changed to Bridgestone and never had a problem after that! These days you couldn't give me 20 brand new firestones! I know there are many people who never have had a lick of trouble from them, but then like I said our family has had very bad experiences! FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2008, 05:44:05 AM »

my last truck 98 F150 Supercab log bed came with firestones.......75,000 miles on them and I took them off and sold them ( paid for 2 new tires) they sucked in rain but wore like iron

keep in mind Firestone is now owned by bridgestone.

I realize some people have bad luck with things.....and some people are just idiots (most of the ford firestone SUV fiasco) but if in deed the tires were crap, they would not be in business. IMHO.

I've had these two on the 8 for a couple years now...they ride nice ( as much aas I can tell) no smell like horse crap like the Japanese made TOYO's ( all the 12r22.5s) and are wearing nice.



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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2008, 05:53:13 AM »

Well, Guess what our Honda Civics have on them?  Brigestones.  And yes we have had plenty of flats with them.  I finally took my sister in law's Honda down to discount tire and had them replace all of them.  The car had less than 25K on it.  What a difference in the ride!  Like Yokohamas, these Brigestones were awful hard riding cheap tires.  We just had 6 new Psuemotomos put on the '04.  They seem to ride great, but were $280 each and about $2500 out the door with equal in rears.  Fronts have auto balancers on it.  Take offs looked great, but were 13 years old and cracks between tread.  I figured if I hit a stone on a bridge, we were going to be in flat city.  LOL!  Anyway, doesn't Bridgestone own Firestone?  Bill T.
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TomC
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2008, 10:53:38 PM »

I guess I'm going against the current when I tell you those Dunlop tires were the only ones that would hold up on my front heavy cab over truck (11R-24.5's in Dunlops are automatically 16 ply).  I don't use them now since Dunlop is a Goodyear company.  The tires to look at are BFGoodrich-they are made by Michelin and are considerably less money.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2008, 11:07:58 PM »

I bought 4 Kellys about 5 months ago and and happy with them.  They ride very smoothly and I am sure that they will rot before I wear them out.  They were around $1000. or so with taxes, fees, assessments, tithes, surcharges, etc.
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2008, 07:48:36 AM »

You cannot judge an entire brand on one particular tire model.

manufacturers often spec out a particular OEM tire that is not available to the general public.  just the same as off brand Start batteries,

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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2008, 11:05:48 AM »

Coming from a tire shop owner I know:  "Brigestone bought Firestone with the intension of improving the brand and resolving longstanding mfr. problems.  As it worked out, Bridgestaone didn't lift Firestone, Firestone dragged Bridgestone down."  I don't know how that all works out but Firestone, for me, wore out fast on my cars.  Toyo, Bridgestone, BF and Michelin(always) were never a disapointment.  Dunlop rain tires were almost dangerious for cornering on my Lez but the cheaper Mich works like a race tire in the dry.

I think the China imports should hav a good model in there somewhere.  Kumho gets rave reviews for auto applications.  Anybody got info on them.  They are the cheapest out there.

Thanks,

John
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2008, 08:14:49 AM »

Hi Guy!
I would like to know your opinion. I want to change the wheels of my Prevost. Sumitomo are good or sheaper tire?

Do you think that's a good deal:
http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehicules-pneus-roues-Pneus-et-Jantes-Aluminum-Usages-pour-Camion-Lourds-295-75R-22-5-W0QQAdIdZ56859511

Thank you....
(this morning, we pay 1.609$ a liter for diesel in Quebec, Canada...RRRrrrrrr!)
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2008, 10:15:24 AM »

Personally- I would always run a quality tire like a Michelin, BFGoodrich (made by Michelin), Toyo, Bridgestone, etc in front.  On the drivers, you could get away with a much cheaper tire.  We have a tire man selling his own Chinese tire, with his name on it for about $280 per tire.  Worth considering.  Personally, I have Michelins all the way around on my bus and car.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2008, 05:32:04 AM »

An other question.

I met a "trucker" yesterday night. He has much tires in relative good condition. He changes tires each year because winter condition in my country (safety drive). The "old" tire are good (I think) for us (motorhome) but that's a 11-22.5. My tire's coach are 12-22.5.

So, in front, the tire are new (12-22.5)

My question is: Can I put the 11-22.5 on my coach (tag axle and drive axle)?

Thank you and sorry for my "limited" english!
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Gaëtan & Manon (french canadian)
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2008, 06:48:49 AM »


Several of the large tire manufacturers several years ago went in together and built a tire plant. none of these tire manufacturers has any interest in the other it was done purely from a money standpoint.

now every 4 months or so they completey retool to build the next brands tires for 4 months of so.


Doug, In my job, I work specifically with the tire industry and am scratching my head trying to think of the site you might be describing.  Is it here in North America, or overseas somewhere?

Here in the US and Canada, there have been very few new tire plants built in the last 20 years. Also, it is not uncommon for two tire companies to undertake a joint venture, but I don't recall one involving more than two.  When they do, the production is performed concurrently, and I've never seen a round-robin retooling schedule. 

The plant that comes closest to your description, that I can come up with, is the Continental Tire facility in Mt Vernon, IL.  It is actually an old General Tire site, but with all the expansions, it gives the impression of being new.   They have a joint venture with Toyo, there as well. But there is no scheduled change over from one brand being manufactured to another. They build both every day.

By the way, is the Toyo smell thing something from the past?  I bought my 4104 with six Toyos on it and never noticed any smell. The tires were great and served me well.  Last year, I stood in a warehouse full of Toyo tires and the smell was no different than any other tire warehouse.  Can anybody tell me how long it has been since they noticed a strange smell from a Toyo?  6 months? 6 years?  Just wondering if people are avoiding Toyos for a reason that no longer exists.
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2008, 06:58:59 AM »

Gaetan- first off to really know if you can use the 11R-22.5, get your bus weighed in full travelling form.  In general, 14 ply 11R-22.5 will be good for 12,000lb on the steering or tag axle and 21,200 on the drive axle.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2008, 12:27:15 PM »

Thank you Tom...I check your information on the coach's plate...
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« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2008, 05:02:01 PM »

Gaetan- I'll repeat myself-you do NOT use the weights off the manufacturers plate.  You have to actually weigh the bus in full travelling form to see what it weighs.  My manufacturers plate says I need to run 12R-22.5, but I run 11R-24.5's since they are a bit higher with no problem.  In fact my bus is rated at 13,000 front, and 23,000lb rear, but weighs 10,500lb front and 20,500lb rear.  So I only run 90psi in the tires all around, and it rides very well.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2008, 06:30:31 PM »

A month ago at Busn'USA there was a seminar on tires by a tire distributor. He said all tires should be at 100psi minimum. I raised my hand and said that the MCI 102D3 that I look after for the hockey team is at 105psi steers, 85 drives and 75 tags, by the MCI book and also specified on the plate in the stair well. He said it's not enough. Several people attenting agreed with him. I also said that I kept 80 psi in my converted coach's tires according to the tire manufacturer's recommendations per the axle weights. He said no, they should be at a hundred min.. His reasoning was better safe than sorry, better mileage, etc. When I got home, I called MCI's tech support and they stuck to their guns saying their recommendations for tire inflation was based on GAVW. That's what I still go by for both buses. I have checked tire temps on the freeway at 110 F ambient and they were fine. I like the softer ride and the increased traction in the winter. This has been hotly debated before and will again. I'm in the softer tire tent...

JC
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JC
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« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2008, 07:02:09 PM »

JC,

I am with you on the pressure.  Have you ever measured the temp across the tire on the front?  My info is that and under inflated tire will have higher temps on the edges than in the center.  Reverse for over inflated.  I would add that I would run the highest pressures I could without damaging the tire or getting too harsh a ride.  Higher is cooler and Less roll resistance.

2 cents,

John
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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2008, 07:33:24 PM »

John, interesting point. I will check temps across the tire tread next time I'm out.

JC
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JC
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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2008, 08:41:46 PM »

i'd say two things.

that tire distributor was in CYA mode. or doesn;t know $#!%.

or why in the world would every tire manufacturer have tire inflation charts that will show PSI's down into the 80's in most cases.

perhaps next year they should invite a speaker from a tire manufacturer (read Engineer) not a salesman
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« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2008, 09:22:34 PM »

Hey Tom Y,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I can get you the following tire brands starting at the following prices if you still need them!!!

Bridgestone  R195 (14 PLY) 28575R24.5 $302.23
Bridgestone  R196 LP 14 PLY) 28575R24.5 $300.23

Continental/General  ST250 (14PLY) 11R24.5 $280.06
Continental/General  ST250 (16PLY) 11R24.5 $292.44
Continental/General  ST250 LP (14PLY) 285/75R24.5 $275.90

Goodyear  G314 (14PLY) 11R24.5 $331.82
Goodyear  G314 LP (14PLY) 28575R24.5 $306.11

Michelin  XZA1+ 27580R24.5 $364.46
Michelin  XT-1 11R24.5 $375.79
Michelin XZE 11R24.5 $357.46
Michelin  XZE (16 PLY) 11R24.5 $426.99
Michelin XZE 27580R24.5 $353.30
Michelin  XT-1 LP 27580R24.5 $365.31

Yokohama  RY617 LP (14PLY) 285/75R24.5 $327.90
Yokohama  RY587 11R24.5 $295.96
Yokohama  RY587 LP 285/75R24.5 $285.94

This is just a few of the tires that I have access to. If you need something else, please let me know.

IF THIS IS IN VIOLATION WITH THIS BOARD, I APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVIENCE!!! JUST TRYING TO HELP MY FELLOW BUSNUTS!!!
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« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2008, 09:51:25 PM »

JC- That tire distributor saying those kinds of things about running a minimum of 100psi really upsets me, in that he is supposed to be the expert, but luckily he was standing up so he wasn't mumbling.  When I sell a SportChassis (oversized Freightliner pickup truck), they call for rear tire pressure at 75 and front at 85-and that's approved from Michelin.  PLEASE only pay attention to the tire manufacturers tire inflation charts for your specific tire, based on the true weight of the bus, and nothing else.  Anything more or less is just guess work-and do you want to play that game with $2-3000 worth of tires?  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2008, 06:41:54 AM »

When Firestone was having all the bad press about their Wilderness tires failing on the Ford Explorers I ran down to my Firestone dealer which by the way looked like a ghost town and bought a set of five new Wilderness tires for my Ford F100. For what its worth I have only just recently replaced them after all these years. I have to say they were one of the best set of tires I ever owned. I replaced them with Firestone again. FWIW.
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« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2008, 09:19:50 AM »

yep there was nothing wrong with the corvair either....just bad press ala nader.

People didn;t stop buying mercedes or was it BMW when old people started driving through thier garage back walls and such.  now there was a small mechanical/electrical issue but 99% of the incidents were attributed to driver error.

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« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2008, 12:11:31 PM »

Bill/sivr,

I guess you, and others here, would be the ones to ask.  Long ago there was a "debait" about switching from the 22.5 rim to a 24.5 rim.  A couple years ago I talked with an Eagle pilot that was 76 or so years young and had had his conversion for many years.  I asked him for a lessons learned from all his years as a Knut and he said one thing was for sure:  I would have switched over from 22.5 to 24.5 rims. (and tires, for you nitpickers)  He added that he had a close friend that owned a truck tire shop and that he had been advised to do so early on but declined.  He said it would have been a lot cheaper fopr him to do it than for most others.  "That", he said, "That I would change".  He was happy and surely proud of the Eagle he had built.

Recently I purchased tires at a truck(mostly) tire store.  I asked the owner if the 22.5 tires were still a better bargan than the 22.5's and he said "NO!".  He said that that had been the case but it was not true today as so many more 22.5's were out there that there was no advantage in choice of models or cost.  What is the current wisdom, as you see it?  Stay with 22.5 or switch and maybe what is the breakpoint?

Are any of the "off brands" like Kuhmo worth considering?

Thanks for your obvious expert opinion,

John
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« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2008, 04:31:58 PM »

I asked the same question, and got this response. More of the trucking industry are going to the 22.5 tire. Many reasons were behind this. All I can say is the reason I am going to the 22.5 tire is because I have a number of 12r 22.5 steer tires with 70% or better rubber and no signs of stress or cracks. I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone:
Go to a hub piloted wheel (***MY OPINION *** THE STUD PILOTED WHEELS CRACK WHEN YOU GO TO PEOPLE WHO SUPPOSE TO KNOW HOW TO SERVICE THEM BUT DONT (T/A, PETRO, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE MAIN TIRE SHOPS. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT TAKE A 1" AIR IMPACT, AND JUST TORQUE LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO PUT A STEEL BUILDING TOGETHER.)
Also, use the tires that I am stacking up in my shop!!!

I can say that in my honest opinion, Firestone and Dunlop is the only brand that I have had problems with. I have never tried the others. As for as the price, They are pretty darn close!!!
--
BILL
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« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2008, 04:54:53 PM »

Hi Guy's,

After reading this thread, everybody seemed to miss one important check point when buying tires.

Date codes..... Remember, years are more important to us conversion users cause most of us will hit age issues before wear.

Watch out for the chineese brands, I have seen 4 year old dates on my suppliers floor and he said that is

normal for chineese brands. Well, he can keep them, and he did!

I purchaced Firestone F-400's all with date codes no later earlier then dec. 07'

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2008, 09:37:49 PM »

Nick, did the tire guy say why it is typical that Chinese tires are 4 years old?  The Chinese are building new plants for everything all the time and I bet there are more than a few tire plants not even 4 years old yet.

I still most likely would not buy a Chinese tire yet due to reports of poor reliability plus I want to keep Americans working.
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« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2008, 07:03:40 AM »

Afraid you say?Huh? After this video, you will look (and buy) your tires with suspicious...

http://rvvideos.blogspot.com/2008/07/your-new-car-or-rv-tires-could-kill-you.html
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Gaëtan & Manon (french canadian)
Prevost, Le Mirage XL, 1987
Quebec, Canada

http://latchodromquebec.blogspot.com/2010/05/la-fin-du-voyage.html

JohnEd
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« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2008, 06:45:45 PM »

Gaytan,

That was a great video and priceless info.  I think that as Knuts we have a serious list of common issues.  Tire quality and safety are one.  Tire date marking "on both sides" would seem like a place to start for regulation.  Legalizing the sale of tires no older than 6 years for new equip install seems prudent.  If one tire mfr has tires that age much better than others, he must be using different and better performing technology.  Would be nice if a tire was specked to a certain higher performing aging standard of mfr. 

I know lots of liberals that would howl at the thought of regulating the tire industry.  Even though any sane person should conclude that if they, the tire manufacturing industry,  haven't stopped dangerous practices by now they never voluntarily will and Gummint reg is needed to protect us all.  Let the liberals screech about the God given right of mega corps to conduct business as they please no matter the cost to us consumers.  The cost(negative in this case) to the stock holder is their primary concern even if they own no stock and never will.  Liberals confuse me but seeking a safe environment for me and mine on the open road is a very Conservative and time honored posture.  And if costs us all a buck....so be it.  I kind of like those stickers on a new tire that indicates the milage and performance of the tire.  Actually, I make choices based on that info and I have heard that the liberals want that requirement to install those stickers deleted from tire mfr regs.  Liberals always seem to have a "go it alone", "I'm not a member of society", "I can yell fire in a crowded movie theater if I want cause I have freedoom of speech" sort of collection of attitudes.  Heck, our first colonies were little more than communes and that was needed for our survival and even at that we would have perished if it hadn't been for the generosity and kindness of our indigenous native neighbors.  Conservatives were in charge back then as if it had been the liberals we wouldhave heard things like "it's every man for himself" and "If God intended..." and most probably "I ain't sitt'n down and eat'n with no unbaptized savages."  The mind boggles at where we would be if the Liberals had been in charge. Roll Eyes

John
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