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Author Topic: A little electrical question...  (Read 2887 times)
RTS/Daytona
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 10:07:40 AM »

Chaz

The xantrex SW4024 has a "PEAK LOAD SHAVING MODE"  (see page 91 in the Trace/Xantrex manual)

<> Set you Xantrex (SET GRID AC1 AMPS) to 7.5 amp (your 1000w Honda is rated at 8.2 amps - so go just a little lower for safety)
.....If the Xantrex see that the load is going over 7.5 amp - it will go to INVERT MODE to ASSIST the Hond a Power
<> plug you power cord into the 1000w Honda
<> Close up the bedroom and just run the bedroom A/C at night (no water heater or microwave / etc)

<> If your AC compressor runs 100% of the time - you'll need approx 1400wats / hour (120v x 12amps)
......<> With the Xantrex set a 7.5AMP - your honda would supply 900 watts / hour (7.5amps x 120volts)  of that power
......<> 8-6volt 245amp/hr batteries can supply the other needed 500watts for approx 8-10 hours before they go to HALF CHARGE

<>so that gives you 8-10 hours of Air /Conditioning (IF THE COMPRESSOR RUNS FULL TIME) -

<>if the A/C duty cycle drops (the compressor goes off- the Xantrex see less than 7.5 amp load (fan only) - the Xantrex goes to charge mode (most likely BULK (FAST CHARGE) and you'll get even more time on you Air/Conditioning -

<> Example--if the compressor runs only 50% of the time - my guess is 20 - 24 hours of Air/Conditioning HuhHuhHuh 

.... IF DURING THIS TIME YOUR XANTREX CHARGES  YOUR BATTERIES AT OVER 24AMP TOTAL (or 3 amps per battery) - That would put enough power back into the batteries to make up for what can out during compressor run time

.... THEN YOUR BATTERIERS WILL NEVER GO LESS THAN 1/2 Rated charge - and you can run your A/C as long as your Honda has gas

>>> Damn my head hurts from all this thinking and calculating

anyone see a flaw in my logic Huh

Pete RTS/daytona
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 10:09:25 AM by RTS/Daytona » Logged

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gumpy
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 11:02:52 AM »

I'm not going to check your numbers, but your logic is right on, and basically restates some of what I pointed out earlier. The only bug I see in it is that if the little honda can't maintain 60 Hz or 110v at nearly full load, the inverter will kick it out and revert back to inverting. Of course when you remove the load from the Honda, it will recover, and then the inverter will switch it back in, and the whole vicious cycle will start over. I'm almost certain that's what would happen with the Generac, but I don't know much about the little Honda's. They may have better control.

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Chaz
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 11:03:40 AM »

Hey Thanx Pete!!!!!  (Been tryin to call ya but it's been busy. sorry)

What you have figured out for me sounds EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!! It REALLY does! My only concern would be that if I plug my shore cord into the Honda, will there be any "bonding" issues or sycronizing or whatever problems? Or is that just an issue on the main generator when there is a possibility of running a shore line and a generator? Or is it just as simple as plugging it in? Boy, I hope so. That would solve all my "present" issues. I'll still have to fuss a bit with pluggin/unpluggin, etc. but that's ok for a short trip like this. Ultimately, I need to get a good generator and wire it up correctly to where I will be using the Zantrex to it's best abilities, ie. managing everything, which is why I bought it in the first place.  Roll Eyes   Grin  But money determines most everything.  Undecided

Thanx again!! I'll still try to get ahold of you and see if there is anything else I might need to do....if that is ok.

  Grateful,
    Chaz

   (they might let me get away from the dumpsters now! Roll Eyes   Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2008, 11:14:34 AM »

 If you have not bought a genset yet a Honda EU2000i can start and run an 11.5K roof air. It would be worth the few xtra dollars.  They also hold thier value well and are easy to sell when you are done with it.
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2008, 11:30:19 AM »

Chaz

We finally got to talk on the phone - I told Chaz that I don't see any problem with the Neutral/ground bonding issue

When you plug your shore power line into the Dumb Honda - The ground / neutral bond is right where it should be - at the power source - the honda generator - The bond will be broken only when the honda is unplugged

Pete
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2008, 12:03:29 PM »

Progress Report  Roll Eyes  (so far)

Well, it seems like things aren't working out as Pete thought................ exactly.   Sad  It works for awhile (maybe 5 mins. or so, depending) and then kicks the overload on the gen. (dang)
When I first started the gen., it was in the power save mode which kicked the overload rather quickly. But after I took it off that, it did run longer before it kicked itself out. I did set the AC amps in to 7 but I wonder if I set it lower, if it would do better.  Huh
 Any thoughts?
   Chaz
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Dallas
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 12:20:02 PM »

Chaz,

This is just a thought, but is your little Honda one of the inverter generators?

If it is, I wonder if it could be setting itself up for problems with the Xantrex inverter, since even a pure sine wave inverter isn't actually a pure sine wave out put.

One of the electrical guru's will have to answer that question.

On another note, is the Honda a full 1KW or is it normally something like 850 watts constant and 1KW surge for a short period?

Just a couple of questions I thought about a few posts back.

Dallas
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Chaz
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 12:31:27 PM »

You're on top of it Dallas!  Smiley  It's an eu1000i Honda. It's rated 1000 surge and 900 run. And if this is pertanent at all, 8A at 12V.

 Chaz
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RTS/Daytona
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« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2008, 04:53:50 PM »

If you eventually overtax the Honda with the Trace set at 7 amp - try the trace at 6 amp and see what happens

I suspect that the 1000watt honda is 1000watt PEAK (short periods)

the 6amp setting would allow the Honda to run at 720 watts

Good luck - pete

P.S. IIRC peak inverters output is reduced as the temperature increases (your Honda u1000 is an inverter style generator - it's also probaly hotter the hell where you are - so hopefully the 6 amp setting will work better

the math says it should still give your wife a FULL nights A/C and most likely more than 8 hours - even at the 6 amp trace setting

 
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Devin & Amy
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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2008, 05:05:52 PM »

Chaz,
I just learned some valuable lessons about cooling from the board.

#1 blow out your A/C's before you go. pay special attn. to the finned unit closest to the hole in the roof. lay a towel in the bottom of your unit covering the hole to the inside. Then blow the air backwards through the finned unit. toward the hole. This will make a bit of a mess.

#2 Clean your air filters. Then when it is especially warm spray your filters with a water mister. The temp. will drop pretty quick.
I was ready to get rid of my A/C's, but these folks gave good advice and saved them for me.

I really didn't think they would be that dirty inside the fins.
HTH
Devin
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« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2008, 06:15:07 PM »

Thanx Pete. I was thinking that might help, but wasn't sure. I'll give it a try tomorrow.
(by the way, my better half is my girl friend.  Grin Grin Grin Grin She would find the "wife" comment pretty funny!  Cheesy Cheesy)
I just wasn't sure if there might be some other reason - maybe along the lines of what Gumpy mentioned - that was the culprit.
 Thanx buddy.

Devin,
 Good tip!!!! Thanx!! With all the issues I "MAY" be having getting and keeping it cool, any little bit can help.
 'preciate it!!
   
     Chaz
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« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2008, 08:09:14 PM »

Hello.

I have a Yamaha in the 3000 watt range inverter style, quiet. I plug the Trace 4024 into it, and then power whatever loads I like/can in the coach, through the 4024.

Turn the economy switch/throttle control or whatever Honda calls it off. Let the generator buzz at top speed.

I found the Trace 4024 really upset the sensing on the throttle control when the loads are lighter.

Make sure the generator is also cleaned out of dust and dirt. You are asking it to run flat out in hot conditions.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Chaz
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2008, 08:37:07 AM »

Well, I tried the 6amp setting and the same thing. Maybe 5?? Huh ?? Huh But if that don't work, I'll just have to get use to the smell of a dumpster.  Tongue Sad

I guess it just needs to be a bigger gen. since a 3000 will do it and a 1000 doesn't.

Oh well, ya get what ya pay for. Time to start saving a little harder.
  Chaz
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