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Author Topic: 6V92T problems  (Read 7766 times)
van
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« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2008, 09:36:00 AM »

its obvious then  the mission @ hand still waiting to get hands on the dd service/parts manual to familurize my self with the removal/install procedures.I haven't found a place close by to do the work yet.
  My present location is in the back of the best western hotel,which the maneger has been very tolerant .Last thing I want to do is wear out my welcome by pulling the bus apart there .Sucks living in a condo complex .
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NJT5047
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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2008, 10:20:45 AM »

Since DDEC engines don't have govs, racks, and moveable injectors, and no place to mount a gov, those components will have to be supplied from a donor. 
The short block assy could be used.  Since Van's heads are very likely gone, he'll need to find essentially an MUI donor. 
It can be done, but it's going to require a good bit of DD knowledge to complete the exchange. 
DDEC engines are pretty rare and are usually more expensive than an MUI.   
There were a good many 6/71T DDEC engines floating about which are much easier to convert to MUI than 6V92TAs.  That don't help you much.
Van, a good 6V92TA takeout would sure make your project easier.  Keep posting and asking and you'll find an engine that will allow reparations in two days...your engine can be swapped out rather quickly.
Consider the history of your engine too...you may get the heads off, and buy a couple of complete reman'd heads and get them installed.   You'll spend half of what a good takeout 6V92TA is worth once everthing's done.  And you still could well have other bottom end problems. 
The only way to know, is to disassemble the bottom end and look.
Another word of caution, if you go the takeout route, get a DD knowledgeable mechanic to look at the engine.  Buy a running engine.  Not one that has been sitting out and unused for years.   Right now, in this market, you can probably find an MCI with a 6V92TA that you can drive the donor engine to the work-site.  Scrap the rest of the MCI once the powertrain is stripped.   
Installing heads on an engine and setting up the racks, etc, isn't a 'newbie' project really.   If you're an auto mechanic or some such, maybe, but this ain't gonna be a beginner project.  Changing the heads out will require a considerable bit of specialized equipment too. Sadly. 
Replacing the complete engine is easier than what you are about to get involved in. 
Dallas, were are you?  Anywhere near Van's Eagle?   Roll Eyes
Still need to tow the bus to a location where repairs can be made.  Sounds like you don't have a place to work? 
It's gonna get nasty where you work on the engine.  Antifreeze, engine oil, PS fluid....yuck.. Undecided 
The engine and cradle can be removed with a pallet jack (s?)...and some creativity.  You'll want a hard surface to work on.
Or, pay someone to swap out the engine.     
Maybe a busnut has some space nearby? 
Post what you're doing...I wish you well with whatever pathway to repair you choose!
 
JR

 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
Dallas
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2008, 10:37:46 AM »


Installing heads on an engine and setting up the racks, etc, isn't a 'newbie' project really.   If you're an auto mechanic or some such, maybe, but this ain't gonna be a beginner project.  Changing the heads out will require a considerable bit of specialized equipment too. Sadly. 
I have to agree with JR on this one. I spent quite a long time and quite a few dollars acquiring the needed tools for running the rack. These are very specialized
Quote
Replacing the complete engine is easier than what you are about to get involved in.
Mucher Easiererer! 
Quote
Dallas, were are you?  Anywhere near Van's Eagle?   Roll Eyes
We are still in BFE, Ohio. We'll be here until next Wednesday or so. We haven't decided what direction to go, but I did email Van a while back when this first started and offer my services.
Quote
Still need to tow the bus to a location where repairs can be made.  Sounds like you don't have a place to work? 
It's gonna get nasty where you work on the engine.  Antifreeze, engine oil, PS fluid....yuck.. Undecided 
The engine and cradle can be removed with a pallet jack (s?)...and some creativity.  You'll want a hard surface to work on.
Or, pay someone to swap out the engine.     
Maybe a busnut has some space nearby? 
Post what you're doing...I wish you well with whatever pathway to repair you choose!
 
JR 

Listen to JR, he and most everyone else is giving you good advice Van.

Dallas
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2008, 12:20:58 PM »

The problem is that with Van's help I just bought the 6V92TA ddec II engine. I will help van all I can to get him back on the road. I will be in Las Vegas the 16-19 of this month and will meet Van and see what we can do for him.

On yea,Tom C, the liner "o"rings on a 92 are above the ports and will leak out the air box drains and into the cylinders.

Above the ports wet liner below the ports dry like a 71

To change from a DDEc to an MUI you change the injector's, the camshafts and the blower

Hope this helps.

Don
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luvrbus
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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2008, 12:46:28 PM »

Don, glad you are helping this guy if he can get here you are welcome to use my shop where are you going to be in Vegas I need you to look at my 8v92 I think S&S installed the wrong injectors I am blowing black smoke like crazy now and my fuel milage has gone to hell
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2008, 02:57:44 PM »

Clifford,

I am not bringing the bus, We are staying at the belagio for three nights. When you say it is blowing black smoke, is it all the time under throttle, like a freight train or just on throttle up and then it clears after you are at cruse rpm. what does it do in the hills. Do you know what they set the injectors at. Do you know what your boost pressure is. I can meet you in LV. on the 19th of Aug.if that will help. I will pick up the engine from Gary on that day.

Call me 1 888 473 3626

Don
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2008, 03:32:22 PM »

Don, glad you are helping this guy if he can get here you are welcome to use my shop where are you going to be in Vegas I need you to look at my 8v92 I think S&S installed the wrong injectors I am blowing black smoke like crazy now and my fuel milage has gone to hell

Hey Clifford,
Ya already asked "Da man" for help on this, and I can think of nobody more qualified on it! But just curious is it MUI or DDEC? If it's DDEC I'd suspect the turbo boost sensor! I had one go bad on the "Hot Rod" (the old SETRA I had that had the 550 HP 8V92 DDEC in it), and it did just as you described! A new boost sensor and I was back to passing everything except a fuel stop! LOL!  Grin  BK  Grin

The problem is that with Van's help I just bought the 6V92TA ddec II engine. I will help van all I can to get him back on the road. I will be in Las Vegas the 16-19 of this month and will meet Van and see what we can do for him.

On yea,Tom C, the liner "o"rings on a 92 are above the ports and will leak out the air box drains and into the cylinders.

Above the ports wet liner below the ports dry like a 71

To change from a DDEc to an MUI you change the injector's, the camshafts and the blower

Hope this helps.

Don

VAN,
You have got the right guy helping you now! I'm gonna tell ya for where you are and everything considered, you can't beat Don "Da man" Fairchild! Even if he does hang out with Dale! LOL!

Sorry Dale I couldn't resist that one, especially since ya ain't been active lately! (try'n to provoke ya into posting again!)
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
NJT5047
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« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2008, 07:36:44 PM »

The problem is that with Van's help I just bought the 6V92TA ddec II engine. I will help van all I can to get him back on the road. I will be in Las Vegas the 16-19 of this month and will meet Van and see what we can do for him.

Don

Don and Van, if the DDEC engine is coming from a complete bus or truck, and the DDEC II is intact, what about using the DDEC II components on the engine and wiring in the throttle pot?   Other than an ignition switch, cruise, and high idle, the engine would be a bolt-in.   The existing engine control leads could be used to power up the ECM for quick install and move.   
Cruise, high idle, and CEL,  could wait, or be wired up if (as) time permits. 
The only wires that would be totally necessary would be the TPS.   The ECM could be overwritten by any DD dealer to lose the auto trans, if the engine came from an auto trans.  If a manual...??
Drop a VSS into the transmission and wire it in...viola... Roll Eyes 
Converting to DDEC from MUI is easier than going from DDEC to MUI.
If the DDEC II components are missing....well, please delete this post!
Stripping out a complete DDEC harness from a donor is a PITA.  Using Van's existing engine control wiring is doable on a DDEC II. 
FWIW, my thought of the hour!~   JR


 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
van
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« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2008, 07:52:47 AM »

Thanks fellas,lokkin foward to meeting with Don andand will soak up any recomendations he is willin to give me .I think now is a good time to relocate ,have done so twice in the past 6 years to accomidate my motor cycle shop and other hobbies.It will always be the same story ,Honey we need more room or hey the the folks next door are complaining about the noise again.
 
  I need more room again,10 15 acres sounds about right .need to the build a building big enough for all the toys this time as well as the ones still to come( hey cliff how big was the one you put up).room for the fab and machine shop,as well as a functional paint booth,NICE!
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van
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« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2008, 12:30:06 PM »

Well great now my computor(pc)has crashed,don't know if I a can save it.I do have another comp that I can use till I replace my desk top. contact info is in my profile if you need an imediate response,will try to check postings every day by early am,

thanx

van
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2008, 12:37:11 PM »

CW, I have a 60x40 18ft tall for sale not far from you in Nev I sent you a email
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 12:42:12 PM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
van
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« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2008, 07:19:52 AM »

 Grettings ,well finally got the dd manual couple of days ago and have been studying it for hours .Todays the day to go out and start pulling the plumbing and exhaust along with that damn transit bumper to gain access to the cyl heads.Don will be in town on tues to help assess the damage and hopefully  take the heads back with him.My goal right now is to have every thing ready by tues so we can see if there is any damage to the cyls,piston, rods and heads etc.Having the manual really helped take the edge off the situation,as well as having some one more technically proficient than I am right now .

   The goal is to restore the engine to it's previous glory,alot has been acomplished in the short time since my problem occured.New radiator,a thorough flushing of the cooling system,new fuel pump,restored and cleaned batt cables along with not just replacing the 2 batts that I had in the rig but 3 brand spanky new start batteries.Original batteries were tested and showed one shorted and one good whichI will use for the onan generator that came with the bus.I even attacked all the terminal connections in the rear electrical panel cleaning the ones I could get loose and replacing the ones that went snap when I tryed to get them off.lotta work but worth it in the long run.

  It will be a long road traveled to bring this beast back to where it should be.feeling alot better lately about doing this work now compared to the state of mind I was in a couple of weeks ago.what started out as passion to get an eagle of my own to convert and turn into a work of art turned into a frantic serch for help and direction.finding this board and the advice of those in the know has helped me more than all you could realize.The comon misconception of buying and converting a bus is that there will be some things thart are gonna need to be replaced,but that you are gonna be able to jump right in and start transforming the interior right away.In my case knowing about the chasis was a plus but not having the engine inspected thoroghly was a big kick to the nuts(can I say that,oh well it's the truth).well if asked by some one else considering to buy a bus(shell or already converted)how to go about it ,my advise is Buyer beware.I know that there were a lot of posts laying out proper proceedures and advice in this area but some times emotions can take the place of knowlege.Its not to often you get to feel like a kid again whith a new toy to play with,get it home and realize that it don't work (dirty *^%@!@  #$%%% !##$$% )BUMMER!

  New toys are cool,very invigarating,almost euphoric,thats the way it should be its good for the soul(blessings from up above)but as always in everything seek wise counsel before comitting to any thing.Not having the resources to takle any job just makes the goal harder to achieve.folks considering embarking on this journey for the first time should gather the resources needed to make it a pleasent trip .ask a lot of questions go out and meet the folks in the know and finally take someone expierianced to help look over your new purchase NUFF SAID,I thank you.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2008, 10:50:05 AM »

Quote from: van
  It will be a long road traveled to bring this beast back to where it should be.feeling alot better lately about doing this work now compared to the state of mind I was in a couple of weeks ago.what started out as passion to get an eagle of my own to convert and turn into a work of art turned into a frantic serch for help and direction.finding this board and the advice of those in the know has helped me more than all you could realize.The comon misconception of buying and converting a bus is that there will be some things thart are gonna need to be replaced,but that you are gonna be able to jump right in and start transforming the interior right away.In my case knowing about the chasis was a plus but not having the engine inspected thoroghly was a big kick to the nuts(can I say that,oh well it's the truth).well if asked by some one else considering to buy a bus(shell or already converted)how to go about it ,my advise is Buyer beware.I know that there were a lot of posts laying out proper proceedures and advice in this area but some times emotions can take the place of knowlege.Its not to often you get to feel like a kid again whith a new toy to play with,get it home and realize that it don't work (dirty *^%@!@  #$%%% !##$$% )BUMMER!

  New toys are cool,very invigarating,almost euphoric,thats the way it should be its good for the soul(blessings from up above)but as always in everything seek wise counsel before comitting to any thing.Not having the resources to takle any job just makes the goal harder to achieve.folks considering embarking on this journey for the first time should gather the resources needed to make it a pleasent trip .ask a lot of questions go out and meet the folks in the know and finally take someone expierianced to help look over your new purchase NUFF SAID,I thank you.

VAN,
As been said before WELCOME to our MADNESS! We all been there and done that! It's the crazy thing about being a busnut! The only real common denominator is we are all really nuts! We can't help it, but we love buses, and yes we are "nuts" for doing it! But someday, some how it all comes together and seems worth while! That's when we give off that "fake" vibe that it's not a big deal to be a busnut! Which in turn lures in more unsuspecting busnuts!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
van
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« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2008, 07:01:18 AM »

   Took the heads off last sunday turns out they are both cracked exactly at the cyls I previously described where the water was trickling into.Now I know the state that the engine was in when I finally picked up the bus and got it home(LV)from carmi Ill.sequence of events goes like this1)fuel pumpgoes out in Amarillo(replaced),no boost all the way homedue to a bad turbo output coupler hose (3psi),installed new which raised boost to 21 psi.Had replaced a collapsed fuel supply hose to the primary filter which I am sure contributed the the fuel pump failure in tx(took pump apart to find out what happened sheered gear drive shaft).Bus is now runnin greatand ventured out to get her registered stopped a B&Bfirst to let Gary see it and discovered the massive hole in the radiator,now here comes the meat and potatoes of the problemwhile the engine was at around 190 degrees we topped off the rad with water and when I pulled out left a big cloud of white steam which I'm shure put the first cracks in the heads

  after getting the bus home had to move the bus again had it running and did the same dumb mistake all over again by putting the water hose into the resevoir once more to keep it filled .now I never had a starting problem before we noticed the rad problem(turn key and boom running engine )never even heard the starter spin just turned the key and the motor jumped to life .Well ok we replaced the rad with one I purchased from gary which tested out very nicely. installed it figuring that all previous issues are taken care of, but now the engine is taking a lot of effort to get started . turns out after opening the air box covers revealed water trickling into 3 cyls (1 on the rs and 2 on the Ls of engine .Now that the heads are off the answer is obvious to me seeing the crack running from valve seat to valve seat on the affected cylinders.

  Having the heads off makes inspection of the cylinder sleeves much easier,they look pretty damn nice .Can still see the marks from the honing they recieved some 38,000mi ago(previous owner indicated engine rebuild 37,000mi ago at time of trade).Although the rebuild is undocumented the signs are obvious that there was some form of rebuild was performed.Don Fairchild will be here this afternoon and I expect That he will probably confirm my suspictions .In any event the goal is to replace the heads to get the bus mobile once more and then get it to a location where the power pack can be removed ,dissassembled ,inspected thoroughly,and rebuilt from the ground up .I know it is cheaper to just go buy a running pull out to to install as suggested by my esteemed fellow bus nuts ,but in my opinion that puts me in the same situation as when I first aquired the bus not knowing what I got .It is still an option to get a pull out to rebuild,but if the lower end of the engine I have now is servicable the answer is obvious regardless of the expense.Converting the bus is totally pointless to me if the heart of the beast cannot power the bus to get outof it's own way(MIGHT AS WELL FILL IT WITH POTTING SOIL AND TURN IT INTO A BIG PLANTER).

  This issue will get resolved one way or the other even if I have to power it with rubber bands(a whole bunch hee hee)it's only a simple machine.Hopefully we caught the problems in time to save it .Having don come out to lend a hand will assist me in making an educated dicision instead of making a BIG mistake .I would also like to invite any one who might be in the LV area today to come out and take a look to see what we're upto and meet Don Fairchild,and voice any suggestions or questions they might have Hell we can even turn this into some sort of bbq event HA HA,and get to meet some more fellow bus nuts(we might even get to learn somthing new.


  THANKS ALL

     VAN



  P.S. I will post any updates as they occur.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 07:17:36 AM by van » Logged
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2008, 07:15:20 AM »

[quote author]
(MIGHT AS WELL FILL IT WITH POTTING SOIL AND TURN IT INTO A BIG PLANTER).
    THANKS ALL

     VAN



  P.S. I will post any updates as they occur.
[/quote]

Easy there VAN, if my mom see's that she want to do it to one of ours!
By the way we do appreciate the updates! Seems many times after all the posts ideas and solutions, we never hear the results! Shoot most times we never hear back from the poster at all! So mark my words WE DO APPRECIATE FOLLOW UP REPORTS!  There ya have it my totally honest opinion! And if ya take it and add $2.00 it might buy a cup of coffee!
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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