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Author Topic: Is this a stupid idea or not?  (Read 3402 times)
belfert
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« on: August 04, 2008, 08:18:47 AM »

I have completely removed all walls and anything else that was attached to the floor so I can tile the bus from front to rear with vinyl composition tiles.  The couch and seats have been unbolted, but they are still in the bus.  They are a royal pain to remove from the bus beside the need for storage space if they are removed.

Any reasons I couldn't just suspend the couch and old bus seats from the ceiling with some chain?  I would put some heavy self drilling screws in the ceiling beams.

Would this put too much weight on the ceiling framework?
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 08:22:47 AM »

Or you could just put the furniture at one end, tile the other, then move the furniture to the tiled area and finish. 

I would not hesitate to do the hanging thing either, but I would be more concerned about the fasteners holding.  Not sure about the Dina roof structure, you're the best judge of that, but my Prevost, allows you to walk on the roof, and I have hung some pretty heavy things from mine. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 08:47:51 AM by H3Jim » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 08:37:01 AM »

The issue is I am hiring a guy to lay the tile and he wants to do the whole bus in one evening.

I would prefer not to remove the couch and seats, plus I have no one to help me remove the stuff the stuff tonight.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 08:48:23 AM »

Hi Brian,

I would do as Jim has stated.  If you hang them, the fasteners will be the issue for sure.

Or, if the floor guy is not up to your likings, drop a couch on him... Grin

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2008, 08:56:26 AM »

Brian if this guy is experienced, he can do the bus in one night even with the furniture in the bus! He can do half, if that half is moved to the rear, then move the furniture to the finished part and continue on to the rear with the tile. This tile s not like ceramic where you can't get on it for a day wile it sets up in the thin set. VCT can be walked on immediately after installation IF he doesn't wet install it. In other words, make sure he installs it AFTER the clear thin set adhesive is completely dry to the touch! If he wet sets it, you will have problems with the glue bleeding thru the cracks of each tile and it will do it for a very long time which turns a nasty black color! Also make sure he uses the right size trowel for this tile which is 1/16 x 1/16. Put a fan on it to speed up te drying time. Make sure he starts in the middle so you don't have small cuts along the walls!
HTH

Ace
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 09:04:42 AM »

Hi Brian,
It appears to me that those who would know best have spoken! I would say pay very close attn. to Ace's post as HE is definitely one who knows his stuff when it comes to this. If the guy has a problem helping you move the couch and chairs a short distance, I'd say goodbye as it seems he's not the kind of person ya want working for ya anyway! Just my 2 cents! YMMV! Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 09:22:46 AM »

This guys seems to know what he is doing.  He said it would take up to an hour and a half for the cement to set up before lays the tile.  He also said that he would use a wider trowel because he is going over wood instead of concrete.

I didn't ask him about putting the furniture on the tile right away, but if that was possible it would cause issues because he couldn't put down all the adhesive at once and would have to wait for the adhesive to dry twice.

My bus is 95 1/2" between the walls so I plan to have him start at the center.  That means the outside tiles will need to be cut by 1/4" each.
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2008, 09:35:29 AM »

Yea don't count on that holding true especially in a bus!
It doesn't take 1 1/2 hours for the glue to dry either especially with a fan but to each his own I guess!
Good luck!
Ace
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belfert
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 09:46:52 AM »

Hi Brian,
It appears to me that those who would know best have spoken! I would say pay very close attn. to Ace's post as HE is definitely one who knows his stuff when it comes to this. If the guy has a problem helping you move the couch and chairs a short distance, I'd say goodbye as it seems he's not the kind of person ya want working for ya anyway! Just my 2 cents! YMMV! Grin  BK  Grin

The issue is the glue curing time required if the adhesive has to put down two seperate times.  He might not have time to do it in one evening if the furniture has to be moved.

This guy is traveling a fair distance and both he and I really want it done in one evening.  He would prefer not to make a second trip and I don't really want to pay for the second trip, plus I get an extra evening to work on reassembling the interior if it is done in one evening.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2008, 09:50:00 AM »

Yea don't count on that holding true especially in a bus!
It doesn't take 1 1/2 hours for the glue to dry either especially with a fan but to each his own I guess!
Good luck!

Ace, what part of the job are you referring to when you say "don't on that holding true especially in a bus!"?

I think an hour and a half for the glue to cure is a little long since the adhesive says 30 to 45 minutes in the instructions.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2008, 09:50:56 AM »

If he wet sets it, you will have problems with the glue bleeding thru the cracks of each tile and it will do it for a very long time which turns a nasty black color!
HTH

Ace

What can be done after this has happened?

I have the black sticky stuff coming up between the lits on my floor (AVION) and have not found an answer to cleaning it up.
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2008, 10:08:58 AM »

Ok to be my old blunt self...
It's STUPID idea!
Just move junk to the rear, spread the glue on exposed half, wait 15-20 minutes using a fan and install the tile! Anything much longer and your guy is taking way too many smoke breaks or is milking the job! Move your junk forward and repeat the process! DONE!
As for cutting only 1/4 inch off each side? That's what I'm referring to when I say good luck! Chances are you will find it a better looking job if you have a 6 or 7 inch piece!
As for the black mess. Bleeding thru the cracks? Mineral spirits will work but be sure to wash the residue up with clear water afterwards! I have seen residue eventually melt the surface!
Ace
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belfert
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2008, 10:24:16 AM »

Since I'm paying by the piece and not the hour I am sure the guy won't be wasting any time.

I'll talk to him and see if he will be okay with moving the furniture.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Blacksheep
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2008, 10:40:33 AM »

To thew Moderators:

I apologize if I was too blunt in my above post to Brian and hope this doesn't get me banned for being so!

I was just having a low moment in life and should have thought first!

Ace
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H3Jim
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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2008, 10:50:55 AM »

Gosh Ace, I thought your response was entirely appropriate, and would not have taken any offense.  But then generally I like bluntness, saves time...
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2008, 10:59:57 AM »

To thew Moderators:

I apologize if I was too blunt in my above post to Brian and hope this doesn't get me banned for being so!

I didn't see any problems with your post when I read it.  I was not offended by it.

Your posts have been very helpful for this project.  I was going to tackle the tile myself,  but after spreading glue for the underlayment I realized how hard it would be to get the glue even for the VCT and not have it seep up between the tile.  I further realized that an experienced person could do it in 1/2 or a 1/3 of the time I could do it in.
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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2008, 01:56:43 PM »

Ace, I liked it.  Shocked

You answered the question & backed it up with sound reasons & advice based on personal, professional experience.

The reference to your old blunt self was good  Grin  Grin  Grin
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« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2008, 02:32:49 PM »

Ace,

I saw no problem with your answer, in fact, most of the time I enjoy your slightly sharp tongue.

Dallas
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belfert
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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2008, 08:02:33 PM »

A friend came over and we ended up removing everything from the bus except the fridge.  My Dina has a elevated cover over the engine so we put the fridge up there.  (The fridge is near impossible to get in or out)  The hanging stuff from the ceiling didn't seem like the best idea and I would have only done it if I couldn't get help.

Ace, what would be your recommendation on how to trim the tile since the space is only 95 1/2" wide?
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2008, 01:02:18 AM »

Declaring ones self blunt or "honest" is usually an excuse for having a lack of tact.  Don't ask me how I know this. Roll Eyes

Tact is the ability to tell a man to "go to heXX" in such a manner that he actually looks forward to the trip. Wink

Ace,

I have given sincere and heart felt apologies that were more harsh than what you said. Embarrassed  You been drink'n? Huh

John
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2008, 08:46:19 AM »

JohnEd,

I think Ace is still a little tender from the thrashing he took here a while back, and hes just wanting to be sure he's ok. and he is.
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2008, 09:15:44 AM »

Jim,

he's OK. and he is.    I said that Huh Grin

Ace,

If I failed to express how much I felt that you had not been offensive....let me begin here. Grin Grin Grin Wink  Naw, I ain't gonna do it. Tongue  We all know you are OK and were just ribbing the moderators. Cool  Except me of course....I thought you were being a ..... well, you know....your usual helpfull and insightfull self. Smiley  Any time you see my foot coming squarely down on my tender part you just bring that to my attention any way you want and I assure you I will say "thankyou".  In fact, even if it is a little mistake on my part....be brutally frank...some need that and on occasion I can be difficult to educate. Shocked  Yeah, even me.  Just imagine.

Thanks for caring Ace,

John
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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2008, 09:19:52 AM »

Ace,

This NEW Humble strategy seems to be working....... Wink

Oh crap, I thought this was a pm.... Shocked

Nevermind!  Everyone else disregard...... Lips Sealed

Cliff
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2008, 09:25:20 AM »

I'm going to chime in on the tile layout thing 'cause I do lots  of tile and I enjoy the layout part the most.  With 95.5" the right way  for me would be to have a full tile o.c. down the center of the bus and have 5 3/4 pieces against each wall, next would be  a full tile on edge down the center of the bus and 11 3/4 against each wall.  Unfortunatly the way I cut VCT is with a tile cracker and all those 1/4 cuts may not work and there is more wastage in the later (the 5 3/4 pieces may also crumble).  the true jobber way to do this would be to have the full tiles down one wall and 11 1/2" ones down the other.  I would not do this unless the bus's interiore layout was not  symetrical with the center line, or even symetrical in general.  i.e. it won't show on the floor layout that the tile lines are not lined against opposite mirrored fixtures/openings etc..
Finally if you are doing a one color design I probably would go the jobber route as no one but you (or me and other OCDs) will ever even notice, and if they do it's because you are driving too slow and they don't have their eyes shut in terror.  
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2008, 09:57:01 AM »

LOL you guys are way too funny! One reason why I like coming here!
I found myself at THAT moment in a low! Been thru a lot lately and was kind of in two places mentally at once! Again, I appologize!

As for zub's way of laying the tile? First off were talking VCT, not ceramic so crumbling is not going to happen. Then you say the jobber way is to put a full tile along one wall. That is the furthest from the truth! The RIGHT way is to chalk a line done the center or close to center to where you end up with equall or almost equall sides measuring roughly 5-6 inches each. The same goes for the front and rear ends. You almost never want a full tile along any one wall.
That's what I meant when I said start in the middle and work from there!
Personally and professionally speaking, I wouldn't lay it straight especially in a bus! I almost always lay it on a 45 degree angle! True it takes more product but it takes the bowling alley look away from it!
Brian to answer your question about trim? The ideas are endless! I wouldn't worry ab out trim until everything else is in! Simple 1/4 round, base board, rough cut planks, vinyl cove base are just a few over the counter ideas! My bus has none just so you know!
Ace
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2008, 11:05:34 AM »

Too late now. If you had opposing windows that open 2 2x4x9 could make a temporary "shelf"
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2008, 11:39:00 AM »

   I always snapped center lines front to rear and left to right. This gave me exact center point of the room. Then measure overall width and depth of room. Depending on the dimensions I may start a tile on each side of centerline or center the first tile on the centerline. Whichever gives me a nice size piece on each side and end. With 12" tile centering the tile on the line or placing tile on the edge of the centerline gives you a 6" difference in the dimension of the final piace that is along the wall. 
   Personally, I like Ace's idea of running everything at a 45 degree angle to the centerline of the bus.    Although it takes a little more material, in a small area like a bus, it does not become that much more expensive and sure makes a difference.  At his suggestion, that is the way we ran our ceramic tile in the bathroom and the Australian Cypress in the living/kitchen area. We are very happy with the overall appearance.  Jack
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« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2008, 03:32:30 PM »

The 45 will work but I personally like something more like a 60 degree angle and arrange it to draw you into the room ( or in this case bus ) but I agree that the angle will keep the bowling alley affect to a minimum.

the 60 or even 75 degree angle will draw a person into the room and you can direct it toward a special or interesting part that you have built in.

Melbo
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« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2008, 04:01:38 PM »

[quote author=Blacksheep link=topic=9107.msg90414#msg90414 date=1217955
 Then you say the jobber way is to put a full tile along one wall. That is the furthest from the truth! The RIGHT way is to chalk a line done the center or close to center to where you end up with equall or almost equall sides measuring roughly 5-6 inches each. The same goes for the front and rear ends. You almost never want a full tile along any one wall.

[/quote]
'round here a jobber is a guy who does this all the time, does it cheap and fast per sq ft, not the best way (nor the way I would do it) just the cheapest.  Jobber would also prefer the full tile down one wall as that way there are less cuts to do.  Like Ace said laid out on 45 would look nice in a small space like this but once again if you are putting in one color of vct none of that is going to show much with a decent installation. 
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« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2008, 04:14:22 PM »

Zub not dispute you but a jobber is a pro that does this every day and he sure as hell isn't going to do it the cheap way out unless he's hungry for work.
Let me also dispute your theory on a single color being layed on a 45 not looking good!!!!
And I might ask, just how much floor installation experience do you claim other than for yourself?
Your talking to a pro that has been doing this since 1970 and I have helped decorate floors in many custom designs/materials in multi million dollar homes! Isn't a bus conversion just like a million dollar home? Wink
Ace
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« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2008, 05:08:03 PM »

I'm just going to have the guy do a standard 90 degrees.  I never envisioned this to be like a fancy motorhome.  I have a side aisle so it doesn't look like a bowling alley.

The goal is to be plain and functional so a bunch of dirty guys dragging sand and dirt in won't destroy the interior.
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« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2008, 06:10:10 PM »

Isn't a bus conversion just like a million dollar home? Wink
Ace

Mine is!!!

in my dreams . . . . . .  Grin  Shocked  Roll Eyes
for now anyways. . .



If the price of fuel & scrap go high enough, maybe not so much dreaming  Cry
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« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2008, 11:06:45 AM »

Guys,

Wow!  Chalk lines and all that measuring and stuff.  I'm impressed!

Did you ever hear what the definition of "precision" was in Civil Service?  That is where you measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk and cut it with an AXE. Grin Grin Grin   Funny, Huh? Tongue

My definition of a jobber is a guy that does this every day....works fast and has no real connection to the project other than his particular "job".  I understood that you have jobbers and you have craftsmen.  A craftsman can be a jobber but prefers to not be.  A jobber, though highly skilled and experienced, is rarely a craftsman and that doesn't mean his work is shabby in any way.  Guys that do those mega buck projects are usually under a microscope and are really anal about everything.  It is OK with me if this definition morphs as you travel around the country and speaking the same language is sometimes difficult.  If you have been doing this for thirty years I would seek out you advice  for that reason alone.  Then you have people giving testimonials to your knowledge and creativity..sooooo!  Who you are doesn't seem to be up for grabs.  A rose by any other name, and all that. Roll Eyes Grin Grin Grin

Chill my brother Cool,

John
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