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Author Topic: Holy Cow. $3.959 per gallon  (Read 9865 times)
Lin
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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2008, 11:36:11 PM »

KT,
I don't know why you want to blame the Dems.  As I remember it, prices were much lower before we had this oilman gov't.  I don't even think it is a party issue.  If Democratic oilmen ran the gov't it would be the same.  Look to see who, and whose friends, have benefited from the price increases, and you will see who is at fault.  You do not take serious chances with your money.  Likewise, these people do not take chances with theirs.  They manipulate the market whenever they can get away with it.  Right now, they can.
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« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2008, 12:12:04 AM »

You all better have your tanks FULL and some cans in the garage at the closing bell of the Nov election.  No matter who wins or steals the election the price of fuel is going to go through the roof.  They will have to recoup the losses, as they see it, for dropping the price before the election so the voters are not fully PO'ed at the cost of fuel.

Now don't go sending me any hate mail but one country has managed to lower the cost of fuel.  Hugo Chavez!  That communist puke has lowered the cost of D to 17 cents a gallon the last I heard.  Someone here told me that that price was high when you considered how little they earned and actually we had it better.  So 17 is to X what 4.50 is to Y.....4.50 divided by 17 is 26.5 so if our average wage is 26K a year that means the average Venezuelan makes less than $1,000 per year and still owns a D and pays 17 cents a gallon.  There is something not to subtle wrong with that group of numbers and the logic.  In Vz the newspapers are all private and Hugo is constantly at war with them....the Vz gummint only "owns" 55 or 60 percent of the oil bus down there.  Now that is what I call a failure at being a dictator....let alone being freely elected in a landslide.  Why can't we nationalize the Gulf and say Prudoe Bay and give it a try....just see how things go for a while....wadaya say?  once around the park for the old Gipper.  Sell it for what it takes to pump it and refine it and ship it.  What do you have to loose.  Now lets hear it from the rest pf the conservatives.....JD Wintworth says "it's your oil, use it when you need it".  We could see just where every penny went in making and selling oil and we could prosecute any one we found with their finger in the cookie jar.  Now don't go telling me it won't work in this country unless you can tell me why it won't work.  This is not a faith based conversation....you need reasons and evidence.

John
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2008, 12:35:16 AM »

Why can't we nationalize the Gulf and say Prudoe Bay and give it a try....just see how things go for a while....wadaya say?  once around the park for the old Gipper.  Sell it for what it takes to pump it and refine it and ship it.  What do you have to loose. 

Be carfull the Greenies in Goverment would stop all oil exploration in the name of stopping ploution.  They don't seam to care what the cost is in the long run make the consumer pay it.
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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2008, 04:52:35 AM »

diesel= $3.759, 9/5/08.
reg gas=$3.299
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ktmossman
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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2008, 09:06:50 AM »

Simply amazing... I was watching "Ice Road Truckers" the other day and they were moving an exploration rig from one place to another because the first hole came up empty.  In less than 6 WEEKS, they had pi**ed away 20 Million $$ on just ONE rig, simply on the gamble. Now, multiply that by however many sites they are working throughout a year.  They are risking massive millions to billions of $$ per year. Why?  It is the basic principle of investment.  You risk money in hopes that, if your risk (gamble) works out, you will make a profit.  If it doesn't work out, you lose your money.  History is replete with companies big and small who invested in oil exploration and lost their shirts trying to find/extract oil.

So, the oil companies risk billions of $$ trying to find and extract oil, and then, when they are successful, we dump on them for getting a return on their investment.  And, make no mistake, is actually a pretty small return (less that 10%).  That means if you snap your finger and remove the ENTIRE profit, you have lowered the price less than 10%.  And, if you remove the incentive of a profit, who is going to risk the billions of $$ gambling on exploration, or investing in pipelines, or investing in refineries? 

And BTW, in most industries, a 10% profit margin barely meets the threshold to get investment $$.  If you wanted to start a company and told your investors that you hoped, in the very best year, to have a 10% profit margin, they would laugh you out of the room.

I'm not saying the oil companies are saints, but denying them a marginal profit is absurd.  It is more of the class warfare game that the Democrats love to play, straight from the Karl Marx playbook.  Demonize the successful as if their success was simply luck instead of the result of hard work and prudent investment.  How dare they be successful!

And another point, just who is "making" that enormous profit that you want to eliminate.  It is really easy to say "XYZ oil company made an "excessive" profit."  (By the way, who gets to define "excessive"?  What if I think the profit of your company is "excessive"?) But I digress...  Companies do not make profits, when you get down to the bottom line.  All of the major oil companies are publicly owned. 

Which means that the "evil" people making the "excessive" profit are all of the millions of people who invested in that company.  Most of them don't even know they are invested in that company because it is included in their mutual find, pension fund, etc.  So now, the "excessive" profit is really a matter of cents per share of profit for all of the investors.  Guess who the primary investors in energy companies are?  They are retirement funds.  Be indignant about the "excessive profits" all you want, but how about you explain to my grandma why you are taking that money from her when she is dong her best to patch together a retirement income.  That few cents per share makes a real difference to her.

So remember, in your righteous crusade against the "excessive profits" of the "evil" rich oil companies, the people you are really going to screw over are the everyday working stiffs that have managed to put a little bit aside in a retirement fund somewhere.  Oh, and the working grunts that the oil companies will lay off or pay less because they have less investment capital to use to pay people...I'm sure they will thank you when they get the shaft, too...

And one more reminder, the Democrats have not put out a SINGLE proposal that will lower the price of fuel.  ALL of their energy proposals will, at best, keep it the same.  Most of them will increase the price of fuel.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 10:01:21 AM by ktmossman » Logged
DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2008, 09:52:20 AM »

I think that what many of you seem to ignore is gross profit has absolutely nothing to do with a companies net profit. Maybe billions are being made, but many many more billions are being spent to try and find the oil and gas. As ktmossman indicated the average profit is 10% or less. I know I would have closed down my company if all I could have hoped for was a 10% return on investment.

One example I know of is that a local company is spending several millions of dollars to relocate a deep well drilling rig from Utah to West Virginia. There is absolutely no guarantee that after spending this location cost as well as the actual drilling cost will actually return anything on this investment.

Richard
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« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2008, 10:08:04 AM »

KT,

I took issue with your comments about Democrats.  I would also be offended had it been Republicans.  I may have my tongue in my cheek a lot of the time but I, and most, stay away from patently "political" commentary and accusation.  I don't know what the moderators feel but that is my 2 cents offered in the boards interest.  And with my best intention as a card carrying conservative.  Also keep in mind that BIG oil pays 60+% tax to countries outside the US so you have to multiply you figures accordingly.

If your 10% profit info is correct then the oil companies have expense totaling 10 times that amt.  So what is that number?  What percent of GNP is being paid by BIG oil to just barely stay in business.

You said that 10% ROI is not really sufficient and investment capitol is hard for BIG oil to come by.  Would it help if the ROI was boosted to 20%?  Just to be fair to the oil companies.  If 10% is going to wreck the industry I would stand on the side that prevents the "happening" of "no oil at all".

If you are concerned with oil companies making a profit then D going from $1.00 a gal to $4.50/gal must have really boosted your spirits.  Now if they were to get their "barely even with industry" ROI of 20%, your fuel would cost you $9.00/gallon, if crude logic and arithmetic holds.  Would this make you ORGASMIC?  That isn't the smart @$# question it might seem at first glance and I half mean it as a question.  How do you factor in the fact that all that oil is coming out of ground that the Gummint(read that as you and I) owns and has leased.  Any fees such as those guaranteed to the Indians have never been fully paid according to the Indians.  So $9.00 wouldn't cover the entire tab.

You are loosing me a little here with you sympathies but I better understand Sharia, or whatever Islamic law is called, as a result.  They hold the company innocent of responsibility for whatever the employee does....they execute the woman that is the victim of rape and it is her family that does the executing and if they balk they get killed... the rapist gets showered with sympathy if he is a follower of Islam but he is killed slow and painful if he an EVIL Christian DEMON ( this stuff always gives me whiplash and a sore neck), and a whole host of "logical" stuff that just doesn't seem to penetrate the reason of most of us. Now before you or any other leap to embrace Islam, they also require that everyone contribute 10%(there is that number again) of their "Gross" worth to charity to support the poor.  How could people that get so much of it so right get part of it so intensely wrong.  Its a wonder.

John
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JackConrad
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« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2008, 10:21:27 AM »

OK guys, let's keep this on diesel prices at different locations and leave the politics for other BBs.  We don't want this to turn into a political tirade.  We get enough of that everywhere else.  Your friendly moderator, Jack
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« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2008, 12:21:45 PM »

Jack,

I agree wholeheartedly.  I do hope there is some way that my ORGASMIC question could be aswered. Smiley  Higher prices are better? Shocked

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
kyle4501
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« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2008, 01:55:24 PM »

Me thinks someone might need to get their meds checked.  Grin
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« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2008, 02:32:18 PM »

 Grin
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« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2008, 08:00:54 PM »

My point was that profit is what motivates growth and exploration.  Without it, the industry dies... The market will determine the appropriate profit.  Govt. intervention will not help anything.  There is nothing govt. has ever done that could not be done better (and cheaper) in the private sector.
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« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2008, 06:41:38 PM »

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008305981_webcheapdiesel24.html
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MCI-9
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That's Not Oil Dripping under my Bus, It's Sweat from all that Horsepower.
----- This space for rent. -----
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« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2008, 12:15:17 AM »

KT,

Alan Greenspan was on the tube today being grilled by Congressmen on his stewardship of the Fed.  Greenspan apologized to the Congress and "the American People" for having been wrong almost all his professional life about some of the basics of business.  He said I was wrong in the belief that gummint reg was not needed.  An analyst later expanded and clarified " Alan has been a believer that the market's greed and self interest will lead business entities to protect themselves and their shareholders better than any outside authority could ever be expected to.  This meltdown has been so bad that some are questioning the existence of the "invisible hand of commerce" that Adam Smith(?) referred to.

After the great depression the Gummint installed many agencies to prevent a recurrence of the financial debacle.  Since RR we have been systematically disassembling those safe guards even though they saw us through the greatest explosions of national growth in our history.  Those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it.  Those regs were not opposed to profits...only unhealthy business practice.  Liars will tell you the Gummint is against profit and that is pure BS.  The private sector is not really all that efficient, contrary to popular urban myth.  It can be more responsive and has less inertia but I have a lot of experience and know of many cases where the Gummint record far surpassed the private sector.  Greed is the motivator of Wall street and without greed the street would be empty.  It is a fact of life.  We just need to channel the greed and limit it from hurting us or itself.  Just where would we be without the Gummint and those that work for us in spite of our ungratefulness.  And about those Soldiers and Sailors that work (and die) for us...they are part of the Gummint also.

I have a book for you...."Free Lunch".  It is an exposee on the corrupt practices in Gummint.  Excellent book, but I warn you, and it is full of references to the source of info and people quoted.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2008, 05:39:13 AM »

we just paid $3.29 in Beeville, south texas
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