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Author Topic: Another battery question.......  (Read 3489 times)
orfunauto/Darrell
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« on: August 19, 2008, 06:57:38 PM »

I need to replace my four over sulfated 8D batteries installed by the p/o five years ago, but never used.  They won't accept a charge.

Anybody out there using the Interstate AGM style battery - part number SLA1175 for house batteries?
I have a chance to get four of these at dealer cost which is a pretty good discount.
A few specs from the Interstate Batteries web site are as follows:
Nominal capacity: 77.5 Ah
Weight:58 lbs
Charge retention: 1 month  = 97%
                        3 months = 91%
                        6 months = 85%
Life expectancy: standby use = 3-5 years
                       Cycle use: 100% depth of discharge = 250 cycles
                                      50%   depth of discharge = 550 cycles
                                      30%   depth of discharge = 1200 cycles

Expert opinions appreciated!  Thanks!
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74 MCI 8
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luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 07:16:38 PM »

This outfit states that the only 2 true deep cycle AGM batteries are Concorde and Deka I don't know if it is true or false but they do have a lot of information on batteries  www.windsun.com
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orfunauto/Darrell
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 07:23:36 PM »

They are absolutely correct!  If I had looked at the part number long enough, it might have come to me that the "SLA" in the part number stood for Sealed Lead Acid ! Roll Eyes
I would still  like all expert opinions though!  Smiley  Will these batteries work for me?   Huh
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74 MCI 8
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 07:36:50 PM »

This outfit states that the only 2 true deep cycle AGM batteries are Concorde and Deka ...


Absolute balderdash.  There are dozens of manufacturers making "deep cycle" AGM batteries.  As with any competitive industry, some are better than others, and there are differing price points.  Also, be aware that "deep cycle" is a vague term, so I have no idea what "true deep cycle" means. I can think of at least a half dozen distinctly different battery constructions that would qualify as "true" deep cycle.  One such type is a traction battery, and Concorde, for example, doesn't even make one of those.

... it might have come to me that the "SLA" in the part number stood for Sealed Lead Acid !


Umm, AGM batteries are "sealed lead acid."  Well, as sealed as any battery gets -- there is a pressure relief valve, in case of catastrophic overheating.  That's why AGM's are a subtype of a broader category of lead acid batteries known as "VRLA," or "Valve Relieved Lead Acid."

HTH,

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 07:41:30 PM »

77.5 is not many amp hr how many were you planing on using and is it a 12v or 24v system
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 09:24:57 PM »

Well as with anything, there are good and there are bad! And also there are fans, and there are haters! OK I am not on any band wagon for or against Interstate batteries! But I've heard many many complaints about them. Now on the other hand I had an Interstate battery rack in my shop once! And "somehow" it seemed at the time just about everything in my "family circle" that used a battery had one "borrowed" off that rack. And the Interstate guy would come in and say "Oh I see ya sold one of these and 2 of those this round!" (he came every 2 wks) And I'd always have to sheepishly tell him "naw I needed one on the wrecker so I {borrowed that one} and well my sister had a bad one so I let her have that one, and ...."
Well dude was good to me "and my family" for 6-7 months. So finally came a day when he said "look my field supervisor is calling on me to provide accurate inventory details, and..." I stopped him and asked "OK so what is it gonna take to settle ya up so I can keep the batteries that {we've used, but not sold}?" He asked me "honestly is it really worth you having a battery rack since ya ain't actually sold any?" And before I could answer he said "how about I take the rack out, and tell them it just wasn't something you needed at this time. AND you pay me OUR cost for the ones you used?"
So I happily paid the man, and he took the battery rack out.
Now to be honest, we could have sold quite a few batteries. But when folks asked "how much, can't I get one from Walmart for about half that?" We were honest and said YES! On top of that Woody & Lamont (my mechanics" would always add "I have a Walmart battery in everything I own, and if I ever have trouble ANYWHERE I can get it replaced with out having to find a DEALER!"
So we didn't really try to sell them. But it was handy to have them on a shelf, so if we did need one it was there! I can't tell ya how many time we'd take 4-6 brand new batteries off the shelf and load them on the truck on derby night "so we'd have plenty of good batteries!" Come Sunday afternoon, or Monday morning when we'd unload they'd get cleaned up and put back on the rack! The rack had a built in maintenance charger which would maintain 6 at a time!  LOL!

OK I never had a problem out of about 9-10 batteries I finally paid for. They all went well past there guaranteed life span! Shoot I still have 3 of them in use today 7 yrs later! So I for one can't say anything bad about them! But I have heard numerous others have nothing but bad luck out of them! Of course some folks never are happy with anything either! SO you decide! FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
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orfunauto/Darrell
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2008, 12:26:21 PM »

Makemine, I'd be using at least four.  thanks for asking.

luvurbus, thanks for the link.

Sean, I wasn't looking for a lesson on who makes them, who is wrong and who is right, I was looking for an opinion on the above mentioned battery type/style/ make, and weather or not they would get the job done. But thanks for your knowledge anyways.

BK, thanks for your opinion on Interstate.  I have had nothing but good luck in using this brand, but I am not familiar with the agm/sealed/vented/what-ever battery you want to call it, that I mentioned above.  So I'm trying to determine weather or not I should invest in these, or some other brand/type.  And coincidentally, I worked for a large truck shop in Minnesota back in the 70's that sold Interstate exclusively. Smiley
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74 MCI 8
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2008, 01:05:08 PM »

There is dealer cost, then there is dealer cost.  What are you going to have to pay for them.  Dollar per amp/hr is always part of a battery choice for me. 

4 group 24s are going to take up a lot less space than 4 8Ds and have a lot less capacity.  What is more important to you?

Good luck with whatever you do,
Don 4107
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2008, 06:06:58 PM »

Sean, I wasn't looking for a lesson on who makes them, who is wrong and who is right, I was looking for an opinion on the above mentioned battery type/style/ make, and weather or not they would get the job done. But thanks for your knowledge anyways.


You may not have been looking for "a lesson."  But you asked a question in a public forum, and many other people come here (possibly years later -- this stuff gets archived) looking for information.

So my response was not, actually, directly related to your question.  It was a correction to (IMO) misinformation supplied by a vendor and then propagated here, where it will live in perpetuity.

I'm actually in the middle of a Red Cross relief operation right now, and my ability to spend real time here on the BBS to answer questions is limited.  But as long as you reiterated your query:

Any battery can "get the job done."  That's never the real question.  The real question is usually along the lines of "is this battery the best value in terms of its expected usage and life cycle?"  That's harder to answer.

I have a low opinion of this battery.  It is rated for only 250 cycles at 100% DOD, and 550 cycles at 50% DOD.  The way I use my bus, I'd need 22 of these, and they would last perhaps two years at most.  The way you use your bus might be very different, and the battery might be an acceptable choice.

For AGM house batteries, I'd be looking for at least 1000 cycles at 50% DOD, and over 500 cycles at 80% DOD.  FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com


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orfunauto/Darrell
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2008, 06:23:23 PM »

FWIW - Your second reply is what I needed the first time.  And I publicly thank you for it.
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2008, 07:07:30 PM »

 I have been using 6 of these interstate U1850HC with no problems  Huh
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2008, 07:47:03 PM »

Sean,

Thank you for your reply.  I thought that the "SLA" comment was an expose of the "true" type of battery.  Glass mat is a variant of the common lead acid?  Didn't know that! Shocked

Your data on selection criteria is great and I don't care a scintilla how busy and distracted you are. Roll Eyes

Please keep talking.....I always learn something from you.  We keep hearing from self confessed "lurkers" that have been voyeurs here for years.  No telling how many people you have helped for now and in the future.  Thanks for your effort and service.

It is my understanding that Interstate is the manufacture of "all" batteries except Delco and a couple others that nobody ever hears from.  I have owned Interstate branded bats and got good service from them in my cars.  My all time favorite is the By-Mart brand.  They seem to give me unquestionably superb service such as free replacement in the first year and they rate the warranty in my favor when I exchange.  I tried to get my warranty for two that were 9 years old and they balked at that.  Seems my paperwork was for two others and I got them switched.  We are on good enuf terms that the clerk smiled and said "oh!  Sure, John.  Clerical error.  Right!" and we all got a laugh.  Sold me the new bats at the expired sale price.  I can't beat these people.  My house bats never really last more than 3 years (usually)but I don't take care of them.  Mostly they just run down and stay there till they swell up.  Turning over a new leaf though with my brandy new Smart Charger.  Inspired/Driven by the cost of fuel.  By-mart is made by Interstate, I'm told and so is Wallmart.  Using Wall Mart for warranty in the lower 48 seems a reason for me to switch when we go full time.

Thanks Sean and all,

John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2008, 07:56:15 PM »

John Wal-Mart batteries are made by Johnson Controls in Mexico fwiw they are the largest battery manufacture in the world
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2008, 10:42:38 AM »

John Wal-Mart batteries are made by Johnson Controls in Mexico fwiw they are the largest battery manufacture in the world

OK so that explains where all those used batteries we used to haul overweight loads of all the time from Chicago, ST. Louis, OKC, Little Rock, Memphis areas down to Nogales, Yuma, Calexico areas in refers with no hazmat placards were headed! Used to load at this battery shop or that little shop, load after hrs because the truck took up the whole lot & part of the street. Run like mad through the night dodging open scales and blowing by closed ones! But we were glad to get the loads
going directly to the areas produce was coming back out of! And usually these loads went to renegade Mexican outfits who took them from the shipper to the receiver with out swapping trks at the border! So when we were able to snag them we did! Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2008, 12:05:20 PM »

Luvr,

My info was 10 years old or a little more.  Its OK (with me)if I was wrong about Interstate making everybody's bats.  I never heard of Johnson so I guess I lead a sheltered life....maybe.  Is it possible that Johnson makes Interstate?  Did Interstate used to be the BIG gun in bat mfr.?  Some co.s relocated south to escape the EPA laws or the new ones are held by the same people/corps.

Thanks for the info my brother(Knut).

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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luvrbus
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2008, 12:17:29 PM »

Your on a roll John they do make Interstate batteries and many other brands even the world famous Die Hard and Delco that's why I don't really care where I buy a battery from most are made by Johnson Control anyway
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 12:38:59 PM by luvrbus » Logged
orfunauto/Darrell
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2008, 12:45:02 PM »


Quote from JohnEd:"Please keep talking.....I always learn something from you.  We keep hearing from self confessed "lurkers" that have been voyeurs here for years.  No telling how many people you have helped for now and in the future.  Thanks for your effort and service."

I can't leave this alone.  I will now go back to lurking and voyeurism on this board.  The few times I have asked questions about a problem, or for advice on a specific product, the bulk of the replies are either way off the topic, or anything but what I asked for.  I eventually got a couple of answers that have helped me with my decision in this thread.  But what I don't understand is why I, or anybody else has to wade through the bravado, or overly thick egos to get a simple answer?  I asked for a specific professional opinion on a specific subject. 

I have many years of experience in welding and fabrication.  I wouldn't mind sharing my experience via email with anyone who asks a question on anything that I have done in the past.  But will not do it here on the board.  Just too many "book smart and hands on d--b" egos to feed.   Thanks for the help.
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74 MCI 8
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 03:34:05 PM »

Darrell,

I know the feeling. Very often I've asked for information from people who have actual experience with some particular thing and mostly I get opinions, long windy descriptions and theories about things only vaguely related to my original question.

It is tough to actually get information, and I stress information as opposed to opinion and theory, from those with actual experience.

There is no shortage of experts on these boards!! The usual result of their posts is that the thread is quickly lost to them on an entirely different matter. I've even waited a week or so and posted my question again to try to get an informed answer.

There are a number of posts I never read at all once I see the source.

On the other hand, this is common with most boards I've been on so there is probably no solution-very discouraging.
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2008, 04:01:00 PM »

Darrell,
   Cost vs. usage is almost a personal thing. I have had several people in the battery business tell me that the "Best bang for the buck" is a standard 6 volt lead-acid golf cart batteries.  Like everything else there are trade-offs. The compartment must be vented and the batteries electrolyte must be checked on a regular basis, but they are cheaper.  If initial cost is not as important to you, AGMS do not need a vented compartment or electrolyte levels checked on a regular basis, but you pay more.  Your choice.  Our choice was 8 standard 6 volt golf cart batteries feeding a 12volt 2500 watt inverter/charger. Batteries are now 4 years old and still working.  Jack
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2008, 04:40:23 PM »

Thank you Jack.  I also got a couple of emails that were nearly verbatim to what you posted.  Thanks again.
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2008, 02:47:25 PM »

Darrelll,



Ahhhhhhh! Embarrassed   "Expert opinions appreciated"  Shocked  I get it! Tongue

John Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2008, 12:56:37 PM »

Gus,

If there is no solution then it is NOT a problem.  In that case it is REALITY Cry.  If you have a problem with reality, it is your problem alone, even if you have company Huh.  Wanting to do the impossible is frustrating in the EXTREME.  Ask any gelding. Roll Eyes  I offer this info with only the most constructive of intention. Cool  Really I do. Smiley

Now as far as.... (tap, tap) is this thing on?  hello(tap tap tap)  can you hear me Gus?  Anybody (tap tap)

When someone says "my key won't open my car door" at WallMart some advise calling home to get their spare set delivered.  Some suggest a locksmith.  When I suggested he check to make sure he was trying to get into "his" Toyota, a rare brand indeed, he and a couple others scoffed at my "stupid" and "off topic" comment.  Guess what?  Don't ask me why that occurred to me.  You ask for free advice you take what you get and be grateful or your universe won't come to your rescue in the future.  Grace under pressure...that's my motto.

Wishing you well and reminding you that this is a constructive and humorous post, wether you are laughing or not doesn't change that,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2008, 03:46:35 PM »

   

        .
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2008, 03:56:01 PM »

"Hero - a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities b: an object of extreme admiration and devotion c: a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability "

seems we ought to change our definitions on this board that are provided simply because you have a lot of posts trying to help others.  There seems to be a limited supply of individuals who really can walk on water, answer questions knowledeably, and not waste the time of those really seriously involved busnuts.  

i for one do not meet the criteria listed in Merriam Webster's dictionary when it comes to my assistance on buses, diesel engines, etc.  i do find that some of the posts lead me in the direction of a solution, even though the responder may not have hit the nail on the head.  i like this board because it helps people like me on buses.

i'm also a certified computer expert, but i find even there, i don't know it all, unlike some of you seem to.  i find that if i read enough of Microsoft's, Intel's, Cisco's posts, eventually i'll find a clue.  i've eaten enough Humble Pie that i TRY not to shoot first and ask later.

some of you may want to consider allowing mistakes by the rest of us. Tongue
i find that the best response to any comment is usually "Thanks", not Thanks for trying or Thanks for nothing, but honest thanks for an assist.

by the way, there are many US manufacturers that make batteries.  DEKA and CROWN are US manufacturers that could use the support rather than helping send jobs to Mexico and China.  Both are part of nationwide warranty programs with other manufacturers.  I DID work for a battery company, so i do have some knowledge.  years ago.

i'll climb down from my soapbox now, being as i'm not that tall anyway and hieghts make me nervous. 

if you all were just pulling each other's chain and i misunderstood, please see my comments above about me not walking on water. 
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2008, 04:04:43 PM »

Tom,

I liked your post and I will be sending you a mail about my computer. 

I will try to use DEKA and Crown in the future.  Glad you went a little off center on the topic.  I had simply not considered trying to "buy American" on this because I assumed, erroneously, that the Mex made was all that is out there.

Thanks,

John
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 04:12:37 PM by JohnEd » Logged

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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2008, 05:45:17 PM »

JohnEd,

I'll try to simplify the problem. "It is hard to get an answer on this board from someone who has actual experience."

One reason is that there are a few posters who are more interested in showing how much they know than answering the questions. To that I doubt that there is a final solution.  Skipping over their posts helps.

I'm not being a grump about this because it is so common on many other boards. In fact, some of these windbag posts are amusing. Mostly I was attempting to keep Darrell from getting too discouraged because this isn't going away.

Years ago I was told that the definition of an expert is "Some SOB from out of town with a briefcase!"
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« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2008, 06:03:54 PM »


Years ago I was told that the definition of an expert is "Some SOB from out of town with a briefcase!"

I used to get paid to be one!!!!!  Roll Eyes

i suppose there may be a few of you not surprised at that (Ace, Cody, Gumpy).  Cheesy
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Tom
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« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2008, 06:16:45 PM »

No surprise here Tom!                        Roll Eyes

Ace
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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2008, 09:03:39 PM »

And the award for being the absolute master of "B R E V I T Y " goes to VAN.  Oscar sent by sepcor.

A blank page with a "period" in the middle as a post.  priceless!

thanks for that,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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