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Author Topic: Plumbing schematic-Anybody feel like sharing?  (Read 3560 times)
grantgoold
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« on: August 24, 2008, 08:43:33 PM »

I am starting to work on the plumbing on my MCI9. Does anyone have their layout pictures handy and willing to share. I see no reason to completely reinvent the wheel. If you have a digital file that you put together when you did your bus, I would love to use it as a reference.

Anyone?

Thanks
Grant
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Grant Goold
1984 MCI 9
Way in Over My Head!
Citrus Heights, California
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2008, 08:57:43 PM »

Hi Grant,

You should purchace Dave Galley's books. They are The Bible of conversion systems.

Here is one on plumbing
http://www.winlockgaley.com/

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2008, 09:01:49 PM »

Nick, I got that book and it is great. I was just hoping that someone had more detail for the 9.

Thanks

Grant
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Grant Goold
1984 MCI 9
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Citrus Heights, California
Melbo
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 09:11:44 PM »

I do not have a plumbing schematic but have seen most of the plumbing set up in two different ways.

I would describe them as linear and parallel.

The linear plumbing does just that starts at one end typically the tank and runs to the other end and there are t's at locations that provide water to the necessary fixtures.

The parallel systems usually have a manifold at the tanks and the fixtures are supplied from the manifold so you can isolate any problems right at the tanks.

The parallel systems usually take more pipe ( but pex is cheap ) and are easier to control but require more time to install

The linear systems are much easier to install but any single leak will shut down the entire system.

I don't know if this makes sense but I would be happy to elaborate or draw a diagram for you the problem being that the location of fixtures will vary from coach to coach and some fixtures are located in bad places for plumbing supply lines but in good locations for convenience of use.

Melbo
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2008, 09:23:51 PM »

  Melbo,is this a residential style manifold you are refering to?
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2008, 08:57:24 PM »

Yes

You can make one yourself or you can buy them premade at Home Depot.

Now when I say that every home depot has it's own set of inventory depending on location.

However they should be available at any plumbing supply house.

They are great at isolating problems if you are even slightly less than confident that your plumbing won't leak.

I have talked to self converters who put pump switches at various locations in the coach -- at the shower by the toilet next to the kitchen sink. They turn the pump on only when they are going to use water to prevent a leak from draining the tank.

I ran all my 1/2 inch pex inside 3/4 inch pex to keep it from being bothered by the vibration and anything that might cut it. I run my pump all the time and have no worries about leaks. I did the linear system with shut off valves at the kitchen the lav and the toilet.

That is the good thing about bus conversions you get to do it your way.

Melbo
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2008, 10:13:57 PM »

Like Mel, I did mine in a linear setup.  I used lots of valves to help isolate fixtures and each major element of the system.  To summarize:

At the water inlet, it T's.  One side goes to the tank fill with a valve on that line right after the T.  That allows me to connect to a water supply while not filling the tank, or fill the tank if I want.  The other side goes directly to a T on the cold supply line after the pump with a valve immediately after the inlet T.  This allows me to fill the connect/disconnect the water connection without back flow from the system and prevents the chance that the inlet connection's plug might leak.

The line coming from the tank to the pump has a valve on it, as does the output side of the pump.  This way I can isolate the pump to change the pump without any appreciable water flow or back flow.  On each side of the pump I used an 18" reinforced flex hose in a loop to accomodate pump vibration.

After the water pump outlet valve, it has a T that branches off to the hot water heater.  As usual, I have valves on both the inlet and outlet of the water heater.  Again to facilitate service as needed.

Next on the cold side is the aforementioned T leading to the water inlet valve.  Then begins the linear run to the fixtures, with a valve just above the floor for each fixture.  And also to a garden style valve/hose connection in the utility bay.

Likewise the hot water line coming off of the water heater outlet valve goes in linear fashion to the fixture connections with a valve at each above the floor.

Off hand, I think I have twelve valves in the system, but no manifold.  For the pipe I used CPVC FlowGuard Gold (400psi cold burst strength and high impact resistance).  The pipes are supported frequently using plumbers tape hangers (provides flexible support) and never pass through metal bulkheads due to the layout of my system.  Where they pass through the floor, I used oversized holes with the pipe centered in it and filled the gap with expanding foam.  This prevents any direct structural surface contact with the pipe. Fixtures are connected with reinforced flex tubing.  If a pipe would have needed to go through a metal bulkhead, I would have used a rubber grommet for it.

I have only had the plumbing system for 3 months now, and haven't travelled with it, but we do full time in it.  So it has been used extensively.  It works perfectly and there are no leaks so far.

There are many ways to do it.  That was my way. YMMV
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JackConrad
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2008, 05:33:00 AM »

   We did our MC-8 with CPVC. using a linear design. Our bay plumbing is similar to HTR's design. A 3/4" CPVC hot and a 3/4" CPVC cold come up through the floor and make a 90 degree turn. Since all water needs are on the driver's side of the bus, it was easy to run thses 2 water lines attached to the wall. With our interior design this wall is covered from where the pipes come up by vanity, laundry closet, refrigerator and kitchen counter. The pipe were installed with a slight slope towards the bay where the water tanks are to facilitate easy draining for winterizing. At shower, vanity, and kitchen sink we installed a T in each line with a shut-off valve and a reinforced flexible line to the faucet.
   I am in the process of doing the plumbing in a 102A3 for a person in Illinois. He wanted to use PEX, so that is what I am using. Overall I would much rather work with CPVC. JMO, YMMV  Jack
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2008, 09:21:08 AM »

Like Mel, I did mine in a linear setup.  I used lots of valves to help isolate fixtures and each major element of the system.  To summarize:

At the water inlet, it T's.  One side goes to the tank fill with a valve on that line right after the T.  That allows me to connect to a water supply while not filling the tank, or fill the tank if I want.  The other side goes directly to a T on the cold supply line after the pump with a valve immediately after the inlet T.  This allows me to fill the connect/disconnect the water connection without back flow from the system and prevents the chance that the inlet connection's plug might leak.

The line coming from the tank to the pump has a valve on it, as does the output side of the pump.  This way I can isolate the pump to change the pump without any appreciable water flow or back flow.  On each side of the pump I used an 18" reinforced flex hose in a loop to accomodate pump vibration.

After the water pump outlet valve, it has a T that branches off to the hot water heater.  As usual, I have valves on both the inlet and outlet of the water heater.  Again to facilitate service as needed.

Next on the cold side is the aforementioned T leading to the water inlet valve.  Then begins the linear run to the fixtures, with a valve just above the floor for each fixture.  And also to a garden style valve/hose connection in the utility bay.

Likewise the hot water line coming off of the water heater outlet valve goes in linear fashion to the fixture connections with a valve at each above the floor.

Off hand, I think I have twelve valves in the system, but no manifold.  For the pipe I used CPVC FlowGuard Gold (400psi cold burst strength and high impact resistance).  The pipes are supported frequently using plumbers tape hangers (provides flexible support) and never pass through metal bulkheads due to the layout of my system.  Where they pass through the floor, I used oversized holes with the pipe centered in it and filled the gap with expanding foam.  This prevents any direct structural surface contact with the pipe. Fixtures are connected with reinforced flex tubing.  If a pipe would have needed to go through a metal bulkhead, I would have used a rubber grommet for it.

I have only had the plumbing system for 3 months now, and haven't travelled with it, but we do full time in it.  So it has been used extensively.  It works perfectly and there are no leaks so far.

There are many ways to do it.  That was my way. YMMV


Good description of your layout. I would suggest that you in fact have a manifold system. It is a long manifold with short runners instead of a short manifold with long runners.
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Kwajdiver
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2008, 08:58:52 AM »

I put values and a hole through the baggage compartment floor, so if needed, I could dump sink and shower to the ground.  The sewage always goes to the black tank.  I can hook up sewage to both sides of the bus.  Wish I had a bottom drain for the fresh water tank.  Presently, if I need to drain the water for cleaning, or bleaching, I have to run it through the pump.

Bill
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gumpy
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2008, 08:35:10 AM »

Here's some photos of my plumbing. My manifold setup is the third generation, and I have not found anything I want defferently.
It can suck in antifreeze or clorine and push it through the entire system, including the tanks. It provides a pressure outlet for a hose attachment, for washing the toad window or putting out a small fire. I have two 2-gallon pressure tanks in the system. The shore line is filtered through a 5 micron sediment filter and the fresh water distribution is filtered through a 1 micron carbon filter. The only thing I would do differently next time is to make the incoming line from the shore connection to the tank 3/4", rather than 1/2". It takes too long to fill the tanks.

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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2008, 08:55:49 AM »

Here's an annotated photo of my main mainfold.
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Craig Shepard
Located in Minnesquito

http://bus.gumpydog.com - "Some Assembly Required"
grantgoold
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2008, 09:11:53 AM »

As always thanks for all the input. Gumpy you continue to be the man when it comes to pictures and outlines!  One day I hope my 9 can meet your 9!! Grin

Thanks

Grant
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Grant Goold
1984 MCI 9
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Citrus Heights, California
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2008, 07:32:27 PM »

...  One day I hope my 9 can meet your 9 ...

... on a lonely country road, each going 70 miles per hour....


Well, some days that's just the way I feel. I told my family when the time comes, we're gonna do a Thelma and Louise in the bus! They weren't impressed   Roll Eyes


Oh, by the way, there's another small manifold in the middle bay for the hot water. The feed line comes from the cold water distribution manifold shown in the above photo, goes through the water heater, and to the hot water distribution manifold.

craig
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Craig Shepard
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2008, 10:03:14 PM »

Craig,

You are a hard act to follow.  Nice work!  Can i make one small comment?  After I sweat a joint I take it over to the wire wheel and brush it.  The solder comes right off the pipe and you have a really neat joint and the copper shines.  This is looks only and yours is a superb design that I would follow without reservation.  Again, nice work.

I have a addition to your system that might be considered by some.  I will install a "return line" from all hot water fixtures that goes back to the fresh tank.  The line is connected to a push button valve that is connected to the hot water line at the fixture.  When you want hot water you press the button for a few moments and release.  That brings hot water to the fixture and you never have to wait for the hot water to get there and waste water into the grey tank.  The other benefit is that I can flush the hot water tank into the fresh tank and increase the fresh tank's temperature in winter.  Originally I was going to use this as my fresh tank heater for freeze protection.

I don't plan to configure my tanks as you did.  I want my heated fresh tank on the bottom and my waste tanks on top.  Taken together my waste tanks will be the same size as my single fresh tank.  The toilet will drop into the black directly.  With this setup i can heat the fresh and the heat will migrate to the other two and they need less heat.  The bay can get by with less heat and the water is heated with shore power when parked and with propane heated water when in the boondocks.  With everything in one bay I will have a true "wet bay".  Insulated floor and sides covered with ply and all built onto that floor.  Sound reasonable?

I am not worried about sloping the lines although I will do that if possible.  I use air pressure to blow out my lines and I leave all fixtures open.  I really like working with CPVC for some reason.  Maybe because I have never had a leak or failure....old dogs and all that.

Hope this is of some use to you Grant,  Thanks Gumpy Dog,

John



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