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Author Topic: Front tire blowout - handling procedures  (Read 5377 times)
Len Silva
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2008, 08:21:36 AM »

I guess it's possible that a blow out can take out a brake line or an airbag, further complicating things.
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2008, 08:37:24 AM »

Good morning,okee dokee thus far have heard pretty much every that could go wrongand all of it true.The main thing to remember is to remain in control of 1)the bus2)the bus(which is the hardest thing).this was always first and foremost in my mind when comin home with mine for the first time.I 've had front tire blow outs on every thing from my Pov to a Heavy eguiptment transporter(HET) loaded with an M-1A2 main battle tank @67tons plus the Het @22 and a half tons plus the trailer,well you get the idea of of the total tonage involved here.traveling from aberdeen proving grounds maryland back to ft Dix New Jersey the left front tire was punctered from debris on the jersey turn pike ,now traveling @ a speed of 60 mph in the right lane in inclement weather you can imagine this to be a handful(it was)thank god no one was hurtthis was the equal of walking a bull stud on a leash and it deciding he wants to go where it wants.Eventually got it under control WE thought right before lack of traction took over.now I had two options at the time try to keep it on the road and possibly(more than likely)end up runnin over traffic which had slowed up in front of me or take it off the road down a short embankment into a farm field,I chose the latter which in this case saved numerous lives (man what a ride).

       The point i'm trying to make here is to always remain vigilant and never take things for granted .There are many factors involved in how a controled recovery is going to turn out none of which willever be the same ie,type of blow out the side of the blow out ,road conditions ,wind,are you traveling up hill down hill in a curve,direction of the curve and most important (to me any way)your frame of mind.distractions are a big factor as mention in the previous posts passengers can cause you to blow it also ,just remain focused .I have driven heavy equiptment around the globe and after being shot at while driving have kinda become desensitized to distractions while driving but despite all this I still always have remained vigilant.

       I call this the radar effect being an ex tanker in the army the lives of your crew and those in your tank squad depend on the vigilance of all to spot the enemy before he spots you first.And have adopted this tactic driving here in the states ,constantly scanning my path,not for some one trying shoot at ya but other drivers ,road hzards all lying in wait to take you out you get the idea .Every thing depends on you and how much you can dictate situations will turn out.first and again formost your equiptment,you dictate how reliable your equiptment is and whether it is road worthy and compramize should not be an option Ever!

      For me this has always been my curse,never being able to compromise.every trip I have ever taken with Cheryl I could never be able to tell you in detail the sights we have driven past ,only the road .Even taken road trips on our harley(road glide)it's always the road.My problem is I only trust a hand ful of people I know to be behind the wheel while i'm on board playing the tourist role.when ever my wife and I are traveling together I drive that's the rule and has never ever been open for discussion and Cheryl will agree ,she would'nt have it any other way.I'm glad this tire issue has been brought up ,things like this are an asset to the bus nut young or old ,thanks


      welcome to my world

         Van
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skipn
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2008, 08:52:33 AM »


  Handling a blow out starts before the actual event.

  drive with 2 hands on the wheel

 please..........

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JackConrad
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2008, 09:18:46 AM »

    When I had to take the Emergency Vehicle Operation Course (EVOC), one of the things they stressed which I always try to practive when driving any vehicle, is to constantly keep you eyes moving, scanning for possible hazards (other vehicles, road conditions, traffic, etc.) and planning "escape routes" from these potential hazards. Also as mentioned, ALWAYS DRIVE WITH 2 HANDS ON THE WHEEL! 
    One other thing I try to do is manitain a "comfort zone" of enough space around me to give me space to react if something should happen.  Jack
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Lin
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2008, 10:43:16 AM »

Fortunately, I have never had a front blowout.  On my past motorhome and bus, I had a installed front end stabilizer systems that, aside from steadying the steering in wind and gust situations, were supposed to help in case of blowouts.  I do not even know if they have them for this bus.
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2008, 11:15:01 AM »

The video is interesting.  If anyone has the presents of mind to put their foot in it when something drastic suddenly happens without any warning they are better than me.  The first and natural reaction is to lift until you have some idea what is happening.  According to the video that is too late to use the throttle, which I must admit is totally counter intuitive for me anyway.

The drivers in the video knew what was going to happen, they may not have known exactly when, but they knew it was coming.  I try to stay vigilant when driving, even more so when driving big or heavy.  Unless you are thinking blow out every five seconds I think you would be hard pressed to react with throttle.  If things went real bad, and you said you applied more throttle I think a prosecutor would ask why, jury too.

As others have said, don't do anything drastic, the most important rule is to drive the the rig.  If there is a funny noise, drive the rig.  If there is a very loud noise, drive the rig.  If your tire and wheel are passing you, drive the rig. (Happened twice to me, non bus.) If there are flames coming out of the bedroom, drive the rig.  If you have bounced off the guard rail or another vehicle or two, you still have to try to drive the rig.  Never give up until it is stopped!

Back in the bad ole days, when tires were less reliable, and I had less $ for good ones, I had a few blow outs.  As I remember it the rear tires were more of a heart stopper than the fronts.  When it was the fronts a judicial amount of brake helps offset the drag on the side with the blown tire.  But, memory fades.  Just glad that tires in general are better these days. 

Rather than worrying about blowing one of my tires, I am more concerned about dodging the other clowns that might blow one beside or in front of me. YMMV

Don 4107
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
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kyle4501
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« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2008, 11:40:36 AM »

I wonder if it is the daredevil in me that enables me to keep my foot in it as all heck is breaking loose?   Grin  Grin  Grin


When you sum up all the different force vectors acting on a vehicle during a blowout, applying power (only long enough to regain control) makes perfect sense . You aren't trying to gain speed here, & you'll only need less than a couple of seconds before you regain steerability & then you should be easing off. If you can't regain steering control in a few seconds, it is my opinion you are over correcting.
 
I guess I should add that having steering control doesn't necessarily mean it is going where you want it to, but rather you are more than just a spectator & have some influence over the direction of travel.

Some times after a blow out, you will find that you are simply traveling too fast to be able to have the normal influence on direction of travel. That is where YOU, as the driver, will have to determine how soon you need to stop before things get worse. Sometimes, coasting is best. Sometimes, gradually increasing brake application is the best. You gotta decide that for yourself when it happens.

I do believe some are better suited to handle this than others. Just look at the number of crashes caused by someone over-correcting when they run off on the shoulder. . . .


Hey, maybe all the practice I've had at getting back on the road is what helped? ? ? ?  Shocked
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2008, 12:55:26 PM »

I firmly believe that the only reason that I am in one piece is growing up with a go-kart.  Lived on gravel roads and with the kart you were always sideways.  Just became second nature.  Later in life that got me out of some really dumb situations I put myself into.  Oh to be young and bullet proof again! 

Some time on a kart and slick track or gravel lot should be part of driver's training for everyone. There would be a lot less cars rolled into the ditch. 

Ten or fifteen years ago on a trip with the boys we stopped at a go-kart track in Oregon.  They had another track that had some kind of coating on it and they added water to make it REAL slick.  Great training and fun too!! 

Don
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
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van
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« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2008, 01:43:15 PM »

This is a great topic that should be brought up every so often.Question for our fellow bus nuts who drive bus proffesionaly,what is the top speed that you would travel with passengers aboard?My trip back east to cedar rapids I have encountered at least two busses hauling customers traveling in excess of 80 mph ,what say you about that?I my self thought it very irresponsible and down right neglegent putting people at risk.I myself like to haul butt when traffic ,weather blah blah blah permits ,even on my harley I like to travel at around 90 but would never do it with any one on board or where it puts any one at risk.


           passengers are requested to refrain from screaming
                          VAN
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kyle4501
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« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2008, 01:45:50 PM »

Van, there are drivers & then there are steering wheel holders . . . . . .
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van
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« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2008, 01:59:39 PM »

Oh,one more thing I think was not toached on was the issue of having a steer tire go while on cruise control,somthing else to consider.

               VAN
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JackConrad
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« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2008, 02:55:36 PM »

Some time on a kart and slick track or gravel lot should be part of driver's training for everyone. There would be a lot less cars rolled into the ditch. 
Ten or fifteen years ago on a trip with the boys we stopped at a go-kart track in Oregon.  They had another track that had some kind of coating on it and they added water to make it REAL slick.  Great training and fun too!! 
Don 4107

  Years ago, our Fire Department flooded an abandoned parking lot with water from the fire hydrant, added a bunch of dish detergent and turned us loose (one at a time) to drive a van type ambulance through a course made with traffic cones. Object: quickest time without hitting any cones.  Boy, was that fun. Great training too. You really learn how to feather the throttle as well as the brake while using the steering to control the vehicle. 
  I also spent many days racing Go Karts on a dirt track back in the early 60s. As well as trying to be Joey Chitwood in an old 49 Ford sedan in my grandfather's alfalfa field.  We destroyed that alfalfa crop. I never realized how much dirt is in the carpeting of a car until I put it on it's roof by driving one side up a ramp to try driving on the 2 left wheels.
  I think all these and other similar experiences helped me develop a feel for handling a vehicle in emergency situations.  Jack
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« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2008, 06:12:29 PM »

OK some clarification here! When I said I used the JAKE brake when I had my steer tire blow out at 75 + mph. I did not immediately hit the JAKE, but only after regaining my composure after thinking I'd been suicide bombed and sure I was in complete controll of the bus. Then I allowed the bus to gradually bring it self down to around 50 mph(again the speedo did not work) before turning the JAKE on and using my right foot to "feather " the JAKE on and off lightly. I did not just throw the JAKE on and say WHOA BIG FELLOW WHOA! FWIW!

Now I did not mention other times I have had a steer tire blow out as they were not in a bus! But I have had several before.

The first on I ever remember having was on a 10 spd racing bike I had back in high school! Now it's not a bus, but scary none the less going downhill on a bicycle at 25-30 mph and have the front tire blow on ya. Especially when there are other riders beside and behind you!

I also had one at 65 mph on a '65 RUSTANG I had with a hopped up 302 BOSS in it! (ruined the front fender, knocked out the left headlight bucket, took out part of the grill, and wasted the front bumper! And that was strictly tire damage from the tread "BLOWING OFF" the tire still held air, and I limped it 2 miles to a phone (before cell phones! LOL!) because I didn't have a spare!
Also had one come OFF the rear on the same car once while street racing (bad old habit) that had not been properly tightened that afternoon when "new rims" were installed! Boy I coulda killed that idiot that didn't get that wheel tightened! Oh wait a minute I almost did kill myself! (Or could have anyway!)

I've also had them blow out on several semi trucks but those really were non-events! Just used the trailer hand brake to gradually slow it to a stop while keeping the weight off the steer axle by doing so!

I guess the only time a steer tire blow out had anything at all to be of a concern to me was several times while armature stock car racing where it'd happen while pushing into a turn or fig 8 cross over to hard! Then it was crunch time, but in a controlled environment!FWIW! Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2008, 10:41:24 AM »

Since there have been a number of bus crashes in the last few years from steer tire blowouts, including but not limited to, coaches from MCI and most recently, Prevost, more and more operators are installing Tyron Tire Blowout Protection.  This is a technology which is decades proven and used by police and fire departments worldwide.  It is pretty much standard equipment on Newell coaches, for example.  Tyron is a steel brace which covers the drop center of the steer wheel which keeps rubber between the rim and road after the blowout.  Steering is maintained. 
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JackConrad
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2008, 12:58:27 PM »

Since there have been a number of bus crashes in the last few years from steer tire blowouts, including but not limited to, coaches from MCI and most recently, Prevost, more and more operators are installing Tyron Tire Blowout Protection.  This is a technology which is decades proven and used by police and fire departments worldwide.  It is pretty much standard equipment on Newell coaches, for example.  Tyron is a steel brace which covers the drop center of the steer wheel which keeps rubber between the rim and road after the blowout.  Steering is maintained. 

Your video shows blowouts without treads leaving the tire.  Over the years, I have had 2 blowouts (fortunately both were rear tires), but in both cases, the treads separated from the tire. What would be left to remain between the road and the wheel?   Jack
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