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Author Topic: Projector TV Question  (Read 2099 times)
makemineatwostroke
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« on: September 24, 2008, 12:16:41 PM »

Guys I am redoing my TV system does anybody use the projection TV in their bus I bought a HD Panasonic projection system with Blu-ray DVD player and a 50" pull down screen I guess this question should have been asked before I purchased but better late than never do you guys know of any problems with these unit.I have a 50" Sony Plasma in a pop up cabinet now it takes up to much space with the slides and there is allways a problem with the Sony plus it is very expensive to repair,these projection units take up no space and I know the lamp cost $300.00 when it goes according to the book they last 2000hrs plus, any input would be appreciated thanks and have a great day
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 02:43:51 PM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
niles500
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2008, 12:43:18 PM »

I don't know about THAT lamp in particular - but I wouldn't go down the road until it has completely cooled - filaments are real soft when hot - FWIW
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2008, 12:50:02 PM »

Thanks Niles it tells you in the book that movement doesn't hurt the lamp that was a question I asked before buying    have a great day
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JohnEd
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2008, 01:12:06 PM »

MMa2,

I sure hope we see pictures of this install.  I plan to purchase a projector for other applications and if it fit the bus 2B that would be super.

Thanks,

John
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2008, 01:16:41 PM »

JohnEd; I saw these in a Marathon conversion in Oregon but I didn't want the 80in screen they used it looked like a drive in movie in the small area    Have a great day
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 01:25:41 PM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
WEC4104
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2008, 01:26:43 PM »

The question raised regarding movement before it has cooled made me think about commercial airline flights.  The really big jets (think 2 aisles) often have projection units and a screen on the bulkhead behind first class.  They shut these down right before landing, and believe me, I've experienced landings equal to any bump you're going to get on the bus.  Granted, to the airlines, the cost of a bulb is about equal to 10 seconds of engine idle time, so maybe they don't care.

To me, a projector style TV seems practical ONLY if you don't plan to watch while in motion. But that is just my personal opion.
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2008, 01:41:49 PM »

50 inch? Why do people need such large tv's? I'm doing good watching my little 17 incher! I think if I had a 50 inch I would have to stand in the br to watch it in the lr! Smiley

Ace
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2008, 02:17:04 PM »

I think if I personally went with a projection style unit, I would plan to be able to move it outdoors if I wanted. Hang a large sheet from the awning, and my kids would have a ball with their own drive-in movie theatre. Of course extra popcorn would be needed for the kids from the other campsites.
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2008, 02:30:15 PM »

Ace; that is one of the best features of the units you can watch any size you disire up to 50 inches or more with the 80 inch screen   


WEC4104; I plan on doing just what you are talking about only without the sheet (never thought of it) but a bigger screen for outdoor use
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2008, 02:46:15 PM »

For the larger outdoor screen you might also consider using a screen material suitable for a rear projected image. I am sure your projection unit has the option to project the flip-flopped mirror image. Outdoors you probably aren't going to want to set up an elaborate sound system, and having the sound appear to come from the screen is easier to make happen with the rear projection. Just a thought.
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2008, 05:45:58 PM »

I am really eager to install a projector in my conversion.  Even the relatively cheap ones just seem to throw stunning images on the crappiest screens.  I am very interested to hear how it works out for you, and if anyone has heard of an actual lamp failure due to movement.  Please let us know.

BTW, there are lots of inflatable outdoor screens up to 12 feet or so across that work well (and you can air them up from the bus supply).

For the indoor screen I am planning to use Roll-Ease tubes and clutches and Pfifer Sheerwave material.  I want an acoustically transparent screen inside so the center channel will come right through the screen and the left and right channels will not be obscured since the narrow bus will not allow wide placement.  Acoustically transparent screens are incredibly expensive, but they are just the Phifer sun shade type material with some extra chemicals sprayed on them (which are not necessary).  It worked really well in the home theater I made which has a 13 foot wide screen.
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2008, 06:12:26 PM »

Lamps are not the failure points in any of these projectors, because they are arc lamps, not incandescent lamps (they have no filaments to break)

What does fail is the little spinning color wheel inside that allows the cheaper DLP (non-LCD) projectors to create colors.  It's a tiny glass wheel that spins really fast and a good clunk will break it, at which point the projector is trash because a replacement costs more than the projector!

My guess is, if properly mounted and you don't go off-roading with your bus, especially while watching movies, almost any projector will be just fine.

Cheers
G
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2008, 06:25:58 PM »

basil; i looked at the acousticall screens but thought 5 to 10 grand was out of my budget for a tv screen but they are nice  thanks for the input 

thanks for the info boogiethecat mine is a LCD
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2008, 08:32:29 PM »

Guys,

I bought vid for a Command and Control center a long while back.  I did research back then to make an informed decision.  Forgot most of it but some stuck.  One item stands out...the diagonal measurement of the screen  determins the "min" viewing distance.  I believe the number is 6 to 8 but it has been 19 years and large screens were just comming into use.  I guess that means that Ace is correct in that a 50 inch screen would require the viewer to be 400 inches from the screen....that is 33.3 feet and that puts Ace in the bedroom for opt viewing.  These numbers sem quite a bit large to me and maybe someone has fresher data.

Wondering,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
Blacksheep
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2008, 08:50:04 PM »

John, this afternoon I went out to the bus, well I was working n it anyway, and cut a 50 inch piece of wood. I set it at the only place I could and that was at the top of the steps. I went back as far as I possibly could, which in my bus is the bathroom and it STILL looked huge! I cannot imagine looking at a screen that large IN a bus. In fact as I type, I am sitting in front of a 27 inch and I'm about 8 feet from it and the viewing of it is perfect. Not too big, not too small!
I remember back when the projection screens first came out and they were so distorted, they could hardly be watched! Now that I think about it, I have a 102 inch coach and looking for more room as it is. I just can't imagine a TV that would be barely used when camping, taking up THAT much space! Heck when we go off in our bus, the ONLY time we use our tv is one, when the weather is nasty, two real late at night when everyone else has turned in, I might catch a late show, or three, tuned into bluegrass junction and that means sound only!
That's one reason why I installed my small 17 inch diagonal, 12 inch tall tv IN a cabinet! To get it OUT of the way and to gain space!  Wink

Ace
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2008, 09:03:16 PM »

The idea of a large screen is you have to look around to see all the input, just like in real life.  If you see one set up right, it is awesome.

Ray D
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2008, 09:47:23 PM »

I noted John's comment about a 33 foot viewing distance, and it didn't seem in line with what I have experienced.  I have a 50 inch set in my home, and viewing it from 9 or 10 feet seems just fine.  So I googled up some respected websites.  Four different electronics sites are recommending a 50 inch widescreen should have a minimum viewing distance between 5 to 6.5 feet (out to a maximum viewing distance of 10-12 feet). 

Personally, a 50 incher is more than I would want in my bus, and I'd be thrilled to upgrade to a 32". But to each his own.
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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2008, 10:52:12 PM »

WEC,

Thanks for getting that data.  My numbers seem large to me also.  I have a 27 and 11 feet seems perfect for me and its a good thing cause the room won't fit anything bigger due to my placement.

The numbers I quoted were from a video Eng firm that specialized in command centers for Fire and Police and military users.  The end users had to be alert to anything popping up anywhere on the screen and the distances they quoted me was engineering design criteria that resulted from University Bioengineering "stuff".  I am not hitting you with the scientific edge of this.  I thought at the time that anything you were comfortable with was the best.  The shrinks evaluating this determined the distance by having people respond to stimulus from different spots on the screen.  As the size of the screen grew beyond a certain point the users began to miss stuff up there that they were supposed to "kill" or otherwise hurt.  I don't recall all the stuff that went into the decision but it was more complicated than what "feels" fine.  Hell, my first inclination was to fill the entire wall but my consultant got me smart and turned around thank God cause my budget would have allowed me to do anything and there was a Lazar projector in DC that a Co. was pushing for the airforce that was such a pile of multimillion dollar CRAP and had a screen like a small drive-in..  I was shocked! Shocked  Shocked, I say. Roll Eyes

I made a contribution in that project.  When the install engineer was doing the final alignment he did Red Convergence and started to move on and I told him I would not accept the install unless he got the equip to pass convergence.  He adjusted it twice and I still told him it was awful.  I finally asked him how many lines he thought was acceptable and he said "one" and looked spooked.  Two of my guys slid up alongside me and said in a low tone "John, we only see one line too." And they looked worried.  I told them to take charge of the acceptance testing and left.  I called the owner of the company and asked his opinion and he responded, I don't know what is going on with you, John, but you just explained to me why I have ripped out a command center for an admiral three times and none of us can find any reason for his rejection.  A couple weeks later he called to thank me and shared that they had gotten the Admirals final acceptance by eliminating RED from the displays they used for the demonstration.  The Admiral's question after acceptance was "now why couldn't you have done that in the first place instead of putting up all that smeared stuff?".  Nobody answered him.  I saw 6 discrete lines that were not parallel and crossed each other.  I only have one eye and it fatigues....doc's explanation.  So the moral is that we don't all see the same stuff and age is a factor.

HTH and thanks again for the info.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2008, 01:40:27 AM »

Screen size is really a personal preference, and certainly preferences vary alot.

The original idea of a movie screen was to fill your whole field of vision, as if you were actually in the movie.  The optimal distance was to sit somewhere between one and two times the width of the screen away.  You can see this setup in very old movie theaters.  The old screens even curved slightly to further surround you.

When TV came out, people got much more used to smaller screens, and then multiplexes took advantage of that trend to reduce their screen sizes to net more total seats.  Owners even noticed people started moving more to the back of the theaters to even further reduce the screen size they were seeing since they were so used to tv (or maybe wanted to make out).  Surprisingly, with all this new technology we have, people are viewing entertainment now on much smaller screens than they were in the 30's and 40's.

If you have not tried it, it is worth checking out the original movie experience by sitting 1.5x the screen width away from a show filmed for theater viewing in high resolution.  You may find a whole new experience that is really different.  With a good sound system and the right show, it can be stunning.  (Note some action content made for smaller screens can make you sick close up because the movement is too quick.)

On a bus, if you can get 6 or even 7 feet of width crosswise by using acoustically transparent material, it seems like you could provide that 1x to 2x experience across most of the living room seating.
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« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2008, 06:08:47 AM »

John,

Agreed. As you point out, there are many factors which weigh on the optimum screen size, including type of image being projected, and the viewer's eyesight. (as well as their personal preference too.)

In general, a lower resolution image like a 480i TV broadcast or 800x600 PC output, on a closely placed large screen is going to look like crap. But you can also run into problems the otherway.  I own a home satellite receiver designed for HD broadcasts. Some owners of this model are complaining that the text size for the electronic program guide is too small to read from across the room.  It looks great on my 50 inch, and I have no problem at all with it, but I could see that on a <30 inch set folks might start having problems.


WEC
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2008, 05:42:32 PM »

Thanks guys for all the input on projection TV, what I like is a the total unit weight with the screen is around 10# and the Sony with the cabinet is about 200# plus the Sony takes up a space 41/2ftx3.3ft x 14 inches deep  and compairing that to 1ft square big gain in space for me.Obliviously Ace has not seen the clarity of of these units when you can see the hair on peoples arms that's clear.  Have A Great day
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2008, 05:49:02 PM »

Your absolutely right! Besides hair on an arm is not what I usually look for while watching the "boob" tube! Get my drift? LOL
Ace
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JohnEd
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« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2008, 05:52:50 PM »

Basil,

Nice post, Thank you.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2008, 06:01:59 PM »

Ace; enjoy your 17 in TV and I will do likewise with my 50 in  have a great day
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