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Author Topic: WVO in two strokes, saw a friends 80 gallon kit, his 4 stroke Ford runs great  (Read 7169 times)
JohnEd
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« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2008, 08:39:48 PM »

Luvrbus,

Please forward Peach's address/phone/email to me.  I have people that can take that WVO off his hands and save him the disposal fee....maybe pay a little.  If he is interested I would like to talk to him about entering into a contract that would protect HIM for the sake of reliable service.  You need the stuff disposed of and I am sure he would like it hauled weekly instead of using a "tank" that gets emptied every couple months and takes up space and becomes a greasy eyesore.

Just spitballing here:  Would you be interested in having a quantity of Bio stockpiled in Phoenix for your visits as return fuel?  I think that could be worked out.  Let me know.

John

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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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JohnEd
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« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2008, 11:11:46 PM »

Rick,

I have been reading into the WVO, BioD and Waste Motor Oil and "out of spec" vegetable oil (OSVO)for more than a year.  I am no expert but I am not without knowledge either.  Still learning though.  I have more than one reason to be interested in the subject.  All of the stock used to produce these fuels is a waste product that has a negative impact on the environment.  Find a constructive use for this stuff and you help the planet....save some money at it and you have a win win situation that I find hard to ignore.

WMO:  Bad product and labeled Bio Hazard.  You need a licence to collect the stuff...EPA or some Fed.  If you can use this and offset the use of Dino you are helping our National balance of payments, saving money for yourself and eliminating the waste impact.  No down side.  WMO boilers are on the market and available at competitive prices.  Free fuel for heating and you can use it to heat your water and your bus barn the driveway and the Jacuzzi and not give a moments notice to fuel cost.  Also, it is a perfectly good additive to your fuel at a 10% ratio if you are running a "mechanical engine" and is harmless if filtered and neutralized.  After all, kerosene mixed at 10 gallons to 1 quart of MO equals Dino Diesel.  That's a fact!  With the cost of running a Wabosto and the like I would think that someone would be looking into converting those Puppys to WMO units but I hear nothing about that.  The commercial units go for one year with out cleaning but they do need cleaning..just like the ones that burn Home Heating Oil (HHO) or DinoD.

WVO:  Controversial.  Lots of credible studies by universities that say the stuff clogs the works.  It has stuff in it that is considered "bad" when it is contained in BioD.  STILL, so many people are using it  that there has to be some merit.  It will destroy a modern D with a fuel rail and a high pressure pump.  The pumps break when trying to handle the thick oil.  WVO will thicken to a solid at very high temps....depending on the oil stock variety. Palm oil will thicken at 70 degrees depending who you talk to but all the data I have seen say it stops pouring at 60 degrees.  Works great in the tropics and they do burn D there.

WVO conversions come in three varieties:  "One" season..summer only.  This has little heating of the fuel.
Three Season.  This can be used from spring to fall and will function at 35 degrees or so.
Four season.  Has tank heaters, fuel line heaters and fuel filter block heater.  They spec them for being operable down to various temps below zero.

You must have a regular tank for DinoD so you can warm up everything before switching to WVO and the same goes for the shut down.  Turn it off with WVO in the lines and you might have a real problem getting it going again.

BioD is here and it isn't going away.  While the fuel "cloud point" is subject to the stock the fuel is made from, that is easily dealt with by cutting in DinoD with its seasonal additives.  In Europe, all D must have a percent of Bio D and that percent is going up. 3 to 5% I think.  It is not a threat to the engine and all mfr.s are OK with this or they don't sell cars there.  That same engine in the US isn't approved for BioD and there is a reason.  Our BioD isn't controlled like in Europe.  You have more of a chance of getting "bad" Bio here and that can stop your engine.  Lots of reports of bad Bio but that gets more press and there is bad Dino out there and that isn't any sort of news and get ignored.  But that's my take on this and you can ask a trucker if they have even heard of any station anywhere selling bad Dino anywhere in the country over the past ten years.  In Europe they use Rape Seed oil as the favorite stock.  Rape is toxic and isn't grown over here in much quantity.  Canola oil is a Rape Seed hybrid that is a food stuff and plentiful.  It is popular because it has a low cloud point as Rape Seed does.

I think Brazil is Dino independent and has no Dino wells.  They make Ethanol and Bio D from veg stocks.  Sugar cane grows like a weed down there so distilling does wonders.  Dino import free...just imagine.

BioD cleans engines, is a solvent, makes almost no air pollutants has a high cetane so it doesn't knock and runs cooler.  You drop 3% power from Dino but don't miss it.  Engines live longer and run more efficiently.

Bio will mix with Dino and is sold here as B10 or 20 or even 100 with the number being the percent of Bio being added to the Dino.  At 10% it doesn't seem to impact the dirt in your fuel system.  Above ten and its solvent properties start to have an affect and you get dirt being lifted from the tank walls and fuel lines.  This leads to filter clogging is when you start using it you will have to carry spare filters till everything settles down.  Then there is the fact that the stuff hates copper and natural rubber.  Fortunately D system don't use all that much copper...but you have to "scrub" it out of the system.  With rubber it swells it and destroys the seals.  Fortunately there are Viton seals and fuel line available at a slightly higher price and that problem is solved.  I think that whole issue must apply to older D as the new cars have no problem.  The injectors are not on the radar and I think that is significant as there is a lot of chatter about the seals in fuel filters and connectors and hose and copper....but not injectors...mummmm.

Bio is CO2 neutral.  The plant takes CO2 out of the air and we put it back in the air when we burn the stuff and the cycle repeats.  Some say that there is no such thing as global warming so I guess they would say that burning Bio is pushing the planet into another ice age and that burning Dino is our only hope. I dunno, but those guys aren't shy or afraid of voicing an unsupported opinion or one that is backed up by 31,000 scientists..."just you count'em off folks" said the barker.  They have their position and I am not belittling them as much as I might seem.

OSVO and Straight Veg oil ,SVO is coming on like gang busters in the farmland.  Farmers are getting Dino free by the oodles.  They grow the grain and invest in seed presses to make their own oil.  They are getting into oil coops and making Bio big time.  NO TAX and the oil is "free".  From what I read the farmers have been filling their D equipment with VO for years....except in the cold months.  The beauty of Bio is that they can use that fuel in everything, including the HHO furnace, all year long.  They run B50 in the winter but their fuel requirement is low at that time of year in the cold places.

This is an engrossing subject to me.  Save the planet and all that and save a buck and I like the hobby.  Chemistry isn't something I have ever been into and I like new stuff, especially if I have a use.

If you think there isn't any chatter out there about the failings of making Bio you are mistaken and badly so.  Yahoo groups about BioD and WVO are chock full of disaster reports on the mfr of the stuff and they come in by the plenty every day.  Just visit the board.

So, Rick.  Any and all of them are viable as fuels.  Bio is my choice cause it will work anywhere.  WMO is still on my mind for a heating fuel but I need a new house to take advantage of it.

Hope this somthing like what you were looking for and I also hope you reconsider you opting out.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2008, 10:14:18 AM »

JohnEd...Thanks for your homework about WVO, BioD, WMO and OSVO in a nut shell.

Now just in the last week posts wanting know more about WVO, 1 user (iminaccess) respond their experiences after miles of traveling. These reports are complete with the negative and positive side. That is good for us none WVO user to know. Thanks to RickB and iminaccess supports. 

Maybe more the alternative fuel user will start opening up to share their good and bad experiences.

Canola bulk oil:
http://www.bulkoil.com/scripts/oiltype_item.asp?p=23

Where can we get canola oil for $2.00 per gallon?

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

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« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2008, 12:53:12 PM »

Brassman,

You mentioned the use of a centrifuge.  For my money it is a must have piece of equipment.  Pass your WMO through it and you get almost clear and most importantly DEWATERED WMO.  It has some trace of metals and acid but apparently that doesn't have the harsh affect that is intuitive or that the University studies have reported.

SVO is supposed to be water free.  "Supposed" is the operative word.  Two ways to dewater....220 degrees F or a cent.  This is a precaution.

WVO is full of crap to start with.  Water is always there and particulate.  The cent is the way to handle both.  You can "wash" WVO with tap water and get the acids down and remove the natural soaps.  Then dry it.  I have never heard of a single person using WVO that goes to this trouble and I guess that speaks to how anal I am.

Bio can't be made from watery oil.  The stock must be dry or the process is short circuited and you get crap that is hard to clean from your equipment.

There is a cent called "SIMPLE CENTRAFUGE".  It uses a 8 inch wheel spinning at 3400 RPM and will handle a lot of oil per hour.  The other cents. like the dieselcraft have smaller spinning wheels to extract the impurities.  It ha drawbacks such as needing to have a drain tank put in place before you shut it down and the speed is hard to control and it has maybe 1/10 the capacity....but it does work very well and is cheaper than the Simple Centrifuge.

Even finished BioD should be passed through the cent to remove glycerin and water from washing and who knows where that hard stuff came from.  That is my personal opinion but I will have one and not everybody does.

Thanks Gerald,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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