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Author Topic: Torque Multipliers How Big is good?  (Read 7068 times)
scanzel
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« on: September 28, 2008, 07:01:28 PM »

I want to but a torque multiplier to help me remove my wheels for inspections etc. I see quite a few on ebay. How big do I need? Is 1200 ft lbs good or is 2200 ft lbs better. Shocked
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Steve Canzellarini
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2008, 07:08:50 PM »

I just use a fence post on the breaker bar. And the kids even did it when they were smaller.

Don't let anyone put the wheels on with a gun, and you'll be fine after the first time.

happy coaching!
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quantum500
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2008, 07:10:30 PM »

If you have a decent air compressor and 1/2" hose a 1400ft/lb  1" inch drive impact is usually just right especially if your just using it at home.  Its actually cheaper than a torque multiplier!
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 07:14:43 PM »

I bought a 4 way lug wrench at the auction last night for $10.00 I figure that and a 8 ft section of pipe i should be able to get about any of them off.  That is if they don't get crazy with the big air impact.

I have gotten every one that i have tried to get off with one of these big 4 ways, a section of pipe and a jack stand.  you would be surprised what you can do with what you have on hand when you have too.

Bob
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 07:19:50 PM »

I own a 10:1 torque multiplier made by Proto
1/2" drive input and a 1" drive output for up to 1000 pounds final torque.
I found it at a Hock Shop the owner thought it was a torque wrench and I was able to buy it at a very good price.
It will remove and reinstall the Budd nuts with no problem.
Handy to have when the tire service truck can't make the service call until later!
jlv
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kyle4501
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 07:34:34 PM »

I bought a 2200 ft-lb Sweeney off eBay for ~$200. It doesn't take much effort to turn the nuts, but it is heavy!

I found another Sweeney that was aluminum & 1200 ft-lbs. Light weight & a breeze to use. I wouldn't want it any other way - no power needed & nothing heavy (except the tire  Grin ) to lift. & I got it off eBay for ~$160  Grin

You have to be patient to find those deals, but you should be able to get one sooner for less than $300.

eBay #'s

370083903928  - 1000 ft-lbs

370083903920  - 3000 ft-lbs
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2008, 12:40:45 PM »

I actually don't know for sures, soosss....How does a torque multiplier work?  Is it just a gear box or is it something else?  The World Wonders. (and so do I)  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2008, 01:07:09 PM »

Yep, it's a gear reducer that has a female square drive input & a male square drive output.
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 06:51:21 PM »

Thank you.  I kinda thought sosss but.....Sosss a 1000-1200 ft lb aluminimimumm light weight type will work dandy and be..well..light weight and work busting the Budd Nutts off your Alcoas (or Budds) in the dead of night when we always get our flat tires.  Cool.  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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quantum500
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 10:33:58 PM »

Why is everybody against or at least not talking about air impacts.  We all have a ready supply of air and as I mentioned earlier a HF air impact is actually cheaper than a torque multiplier.  You have to add hose but honestly how much easier does anyone want it?  The likelihood of a flat tire and a dead compressor is so small that everybody should be easily convinced to carry a big impact.  Cuts changing a tire by at least 75% compared to the old armstrong technique.  I just don't get it?
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 03:11:56 AM »

Using impacts is an art which most tire shops don't have. Impacts will stretch bolt threads if used incorrectly. Installing a monster tire and wheel such as we all have can be removed with an impact, install with an impact just before it seats, then final torque applied by hand. You can easily overtorque with an impact and cause severe damage to the threads and the seat on the wheel, especailly on aluminum ones.

I have never done one on our coach, my experience is what I know about using an impact.

I'm sure others who have actually done the work may have additional information, Wink

Paul
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scanzel
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 03:52:10 AM »

If I happen to need to change a tire away from home I think it would be handy to have along. A large impact gun is no good on the road unless you have a big air supply. Why not have both? Plus you cannot ever have to many tools. My wife keeps asking me if there are any I don't have, and I say yes this one. Grin
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Steve Canzellarini
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2008, 05:23:00 AM »

Well, I wondered how long the replys would stay on topic & answer the question posed.  Grin  Grin  Grin  Grin
I just assumed Scanzel already had one & wanted another tool.  Roll Eyes

I have both, but I prefer the multiplier, it doesn't seem to visit as much violence on the rim.

The GOOD impacts that will provide 1000+ ft lbs are not cheap. The china freight ones are usually air hogs, sometimes you can get lucky but you can't plan on it.
Then you need to consider the air hose & punk tank & the space they take.  Sad

My multiplier is much smaller than an impact gun.


I use my De-Walt 18V cordless drill to run the nuts off & back on to speed things up. I'm not leaving home without my De-Walt.  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 03:00:33 PM »

Very good questions raised.  I would prefer a manual breaking bar/torque multiplier over an air wrench because...1) If I'm jacking up the Bus Conversion....I don't want the engine running.  Too many things can go wrong.  2) Not enough air volume at high enough pressure to do any good, thus requiring running the engine jacked up.

3) KISS with regards to carrying spares, tools, parts and stuff.  4) A lack of storage space to store all the extra stuff anyway--no room.  (Crown Super Coach)  4) Low probability of ever needing the breaking bar/multiplier to begin with.  All subjective and may change based upon experiece which I don't have.  Thanks. Smiley Smiley Smiley
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jjrbus
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 04:31:36 PM »

Why is everybody against or at least not talking about air impacts.  We all have a ready supply of air and as I mentioned earlier a HF air impact is actually cheaper than a torque multiplier.  You have to add hose but honestly how much easier does anyone want it?  The likelihood of a flat tire and a dead compressor is so small that everybody should be easily convinced to carry a big impact.  Cuts changing a tire by at least 75% compared to the old armstrong technique.  I just don't get it?

 I carry a 3/4 inch harbor frieght impact and a small air compressor. I can take lug nuts off with it!!!! No I'm not full of it, I can do it. Not as quickly as a 1 inch Ingrosoll Rand with a 10 HP compressor. But it works, once you learn how to use it.                                                                                         Jim
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quantum500
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2008, 07:17:14 PM »

Yep a 3/4" will do it most of the time....with enough air.  I have had a 1" impact not budge a stud that holds the inside wheel on a L8000 ford this summer.  It was a cheap impact but it had 150psi through 1/2" hose.  It finally twisted it off and didn't even ruin any threads!  How lucky is that!?  I'm just a big fan of impacts to get the job done quick.  I have changed many truck tires the old armstrong way and I know that a torque multiplier would make it easier.  Most of the buses on the board are old enough that there are going to be issues.  That one nut that needs a 12' cheater all the way off is my favorite!  Along side a 2-lane road in the dark would make it even better!  As for dinging wheels with an impact....there is a solution to that problem.  You can make your own or buy them special.  No need to avoid an impact though!  Speaking of tools I'm seriously thinking about packing  250 twin miller stick welder around.  It would be more for the toys than the actual bus, but if the bus did ever need it that would sure be sweet.  Gotta love tools.  I have seen reference to "60lbs" of tools is the accepted amount.  I'm not sure how much that is exactly.  If your dealing with 1/4" drive stuff its a whole lot.  3/4" or 1" it isn't squat!  I have 4 sets of stacked tool boxes and even the little part on top has to be close to 200lbs on the one that is almost empty.  When in doubt always pack more tools.  Its always the goofy stuff that saves the day.
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2008, 12:24:19 AM »

JJ,

I, for one, want to know how you do that.

Thanks,

John
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2008, 05:42:09 AM »

JJ,

I, for one, want to know how you do that.

Thanks,

John

After watching me struggle for a while with an impact my Guru, Jerry Jenkinson came over and stopped me. He then explained it like this.  If you place an air gauge at the impact tool, when you plull the trigger you can see the pressure drop. Take your finger off the trigger and the pressure rebuilds. If you hold the triggger down the pressure continues to drop, so there is less pressure and volume to the tool. After 10 seconds all you are doing is making noise, there is insufficent pressure and volume to the tool.  Makes sense when you think about it.
 By useing the tool in bursts of 3 to 5 seconds and then let the compressor rebuild pressure and volume in the hose for a few seconds. Then another short burst, let the pressure rebuild etc. This allows the tool to work at its maximum power. If the compressor cycles, stop and let it catch up. The addition of a auxillary tank as close as possible to the tool also helps.  Also needed is oil, Oil is power, use oil in impact wrench liberaly!!!
 With a little time and patience this method works extreamly well! Given a choice I would rather have a 1 inch impact with a 1 inch hose and a 10 HP compressor, it is just not an option for me.  HTH Jim
 
As a side note, I no longer use 12 foot scd 80 cheater bars or jacks on braker bars, if a nut is that hard to take off I find the delicate use of an angle grinder is my preferred method. No more broken studs, broken sockets, broken wrenches. Two minutes with an angle grinder, beats a couple hours removeing a broken stud.  It also reduces the chance of injury!!!!

60lbs of tools is the acceptable amount, for who? The wife?Huh
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2008, 11:40:09 AM »

Thank you Jim....you explain it well about the burst of air volume under high pressure coming from small line and compressor.

Remember any size air impact tool are rated at 90 psi lubed air with a given cfm flow rate from the manufacture’s spec. Other words, air motor need to spins at maximum rpm in order to reach the design specification. An impact tool is rotary motor spinning to allow hammers hitting shaft’s anvil to transmit that blow of rotary force onto the nut.

Air hose size, the bigger the better for max torque at 90 psi. No less than spec size and no longer than 10 ft but connect to one size larger beyond that. PAT (portable air tank) is good if you want to use standard size air hose from bus to PAT and a 6 ft large size hose to the impact.

Don’t forget to squirt a little air lube into male disconnect after 5 minutes of uses. Otherwise you will get weaker torque output.
 

About avoiding breaking stud….A proper rated torque stick well solve that problem.
Look for ¾” or 1” Torque Stick near bottom of page:
http://www.torquestick.com/cart/catalog/INDIVIDUAL_TORQUE_STICKS-p-1-c-1.html

Torque Chart:
http://www.tireindustry.org/cts/know2.asp

I have work at 2 trucking fleet in late 50’s to early 60’s, I learn the only way to break lug’s stud is either over torque or chewed thread to cause binding. Torque Stick wasn’t available then. And worn & strip thread from many of off & on or lack of tread’s care…need to be free of sand dust & dirt.

You can remove them with max torque and make sure read the letter on end of stud…”L” left or “R” right hand.

About torque multiplier…..if you don’t have a source of air…that the only time I might consider one. It also comes with a risk of bruise on your leg or whatever. They are costly, heavy and long breaking bar to handle while moving to & fro plus slip off sometime and very time consuming. Done that and no thanks.

On a hot rainy-muddy day or cold snowy day or on very busy roadway traffic….my choice is an impact or call road service while on vacation or retired to enjoy more of your time.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2008, 11:48:53 AM »

Great thread everyone.  Thank you.  I'm getting sooss old that even thinking about changing out a flat on a dark and stormy night gives me the willies.  An air wrench...humm.  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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luvrbus
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2008, 11:51:58 AM »

I have a 1/2 drive AirCat that will loosen 1000#torque and tighten 800# cost me $180.00 weighs 4 # and fit's in my tool box some of the China built 1 inch will only do 800# but always use the protector on your Alcoa's Good luck
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 12:05:53 PM by luvrbus » Logged
jjrbus
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2008, 12:42:06 PM »

Great thread everyone.  Thank you.  I'm getting sooss old that even thinking about changing out a flat on a dark and stormy night gives me the willies.  An air wrench...humm.  Smiley Smiley Smiley

 If you are getting that old, you should not be out on a dark stormy night  Grin
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2008, 05:09:40 PM »

It was a dark and stormy night and I was Old...soooss Old that when the tire went...he he he  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Brassman
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2008, 08:07:17 PM »

Hows come nobody mentioned the BFH (big hammer). Torque multipilers need to lock onto something stationary to achieve their force,
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quantum500
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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2008, 08:47:40 PM »

Probably cause nobody likes to hold onto what ever the BFH is hitting.  Takes 2 to tango and I'll bet the wife doesn't get to swing the hammer  Grin
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Brassman
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2008, 09:05:26 PM »

If she could swing the BFH, I'd hold the wrench.
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quantum500
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2008, 09:17:26 PM »

Key word is "IF"!  I would hold the wrench too but we both know it wouldn't do anything.  I have a old slaughter house kill hammer that weighs about 30lbs with a welded on pipe handle, it will move things that any mere mortal hammer could never attempt.  I will guarantee you that you do not want to be the one swinging it.
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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2008, 09:27:10 PM »

Though it does seem like one heck of a torque multiplier.
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kyle4501
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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2008, 01:19:04 PM »

Hows come nobody mentioned the BFH (big hammer). Torque multipliers need to lock onto something stationary to achieve their force,

Every time I've used my torque multipliers, there was plenty of ground to use as something stationary for the reaction bar.  Wink

I can't imagine how the big hammer would work for the outer wheel without something stationary holding the extension up.  Grin
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« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2008, 01:57:39 PM »

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sweeney-Torque-Multiplier_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a15Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem280275897409QQitemZ280275897409


Looks like one of mine. Stout unit for sure!  Grin
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