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Author Topic: Quad Front and Steerable Tag Axle Retrofit ?  (Read 4714 times)
shodogg
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« on: October 01, 2008, 07:30:00 AM »

Has anyone else ever considered retrofitting a steerable tag wheel on a 45ft eagle 15 without switching around the tag/drive axle configuration?  Was thinking that if the dump truck rigs can have'm why not an eagle buses.

Also has anyone ever contemplated adding a second power steering axle to the front, making a "quad steer" coach?

 The reason this came up is that at the Old Waccamaw Pottery in Myrtle Beach, SC (at a Gatlin Brothers show), I noticed the difference in turning radius of the two different rear axle configs. Those 45 footer eagles sure did buckle up that soft asphalt under them tag wheels. You could always tell where an eagle had been parking.

 Called Silver Eagle MFG about this, and talked to the head person on coach specifications; believe it was Randy. He said at the time they had no plans for such an option because of the torsion suspension config, but if anybody know otherwise please share an interesting post. Thank you yet.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 07:44:33 PM by shodogg » Logged
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2008, 07:47:02 AM »

shodogg,
you and Sonny Gray needs to get together ! Your idea & Sonny's knowledge, skills, & experience could prove to be a work of Eagle ART!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
luvrbus
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2008, 07:52:19 AM »

shodogg, if your Eagle is scuffing the tires and pavement on the boogie axle it's out of alignment they don't  roll the payment when in alignment.The fellows I know that have flip the axle to install larger engine and different gear ratios without the drop box use liftable tags Sonnie and Rusty for a few.How long have you owned your Eagle if you could attend the Eagle rally in Quartzsite in Jan it will have have Eagles with a bunch of different configurations to look at you are welcome to attend  may even like us and join the group     good luck
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 07:59:15 AM by luvrbus » Logged
shodogg
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 08:48:26 AM »

That is what S.E.MFG said, something along the line that the new trans length won’t be able to fit in the old eagle config, and that was why they switched to the drive then tag config. They also said it is because they no longer make the shorter drivetrain specs. No matter what the reasons I am sure anything can be done with a good fabrication program plan.

We’ve had an eagle 01 in the family for maybe 15yrs. It needs and will be getting some work on the outside. Just been sitting outside and have to air up every now and then and keep the engine fired up once and a while. I am planning to purchase a 45 footer but want to see the results of the new eagle trail runs. Been tempted to just buy a 96 raised roof square-flush roof, but Ill love that tag axle to just be to turn right there in the classic configuration.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2008, 09:01:41 AM »

Shodogg, liftable tags are not new to Eagles the MOL built Eagles in the 80's all had liftable air tags not the boogie design 
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shodogg
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 09:05:50 AM »

Yes I'm aware of that.
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 10:53:04 AM »

Shodogg,

Is that the red Eagle 01 in your profile? Picture is so small I can't tell. Do you have a larger picture?

What year is it?

Paul
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luvrbus
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 11:08:37 AM »

Paul, if that is a model 01 somebody did a good job making it look like a model 15 it has the 4 baggage doors like a 01
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 03:13:19 PM by luvrbus » Logged
Dreamscape
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 02:34:16 PM »

Clifford,

I know, but I think I see the drive axle in front of the tags. Not sure! Wink

Paul
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shodogg
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 05:31:53 PM »

Paul, and Cliff that is a 95-96 45 with a photo-shopped rear axle config. I was trying to get a perspective of how the new classic eagle is going to look. I will probably have some decent picks of the 01 around spring (still parked in the shade under trees).

I will try to locate some old pic from its more glorious days.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 05:51:12 PM »

Shodogg, Wayne (rusty) the president of our Eagle group has a late model 15 classic 45ft that he is flipping the axle and installing ABS brakes, on his tag the wheels are turned to the inside and Sonnies are turn to the outside    good luck
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 05:53:55 PM by luvrbus » Logged
TomC
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 11:12:56 PM »

If you keep the torsion suspension, then you'd have to install a reverser that changes the caster for backing up-otherwise the wheels will self steer to the opposite way you want them to go.  Or you could change the tag to an air suspension set up with a axle raising air bag-like what trucks use.  Otherwise, put the tag in the rear with the drive in the front position.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
shodogg
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2008, 08:44:34 AM »

At first I was contemplating just a simple passive-spring loaded yaw principle, meaning: with an air bag on the tag, fabricate or install a heavy duty alignment spring (used on dump trucks(?) ) to have a constant tension, to always be pulling the tags back to straight ahead position ( by equalizing the two opposing spring tensions). However, I may just have to lift the tag for backing up the bus.

Clifford do you mean in addition to reconfiguring the rear axles, the tag rims will be turned inside out as in some dump truck rigs?

TomC what is the caster and how can it be made to change via a reverser?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 10:13:25 AM by shodogg » Logged
TomC
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2008, 02:01:36 PM »

Caster is the slant on the king pin on a steering axle that gives the steer tire the ability to straighten itself out-like when you take your hands off the steering wheel and the wheel wants to come back to straight.  When it is properly adjusted for forward motion, if you reverse, it will self steer the opposite way-or steer to either all the way right or left (just try back your car without your hands on the wheel).  On trucks that don't have air lift axles, they have a reverser that is a multi link with a air cylinder that when you want to back up, it changes the caster setting so it self steers in reverse also.  This is usually tied in with the backup lights to make the operation automatic.  I believe that both Hendrickson and Neway have these types of self steering tag axles with reverser.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
shodogg
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2008, 07:56:00 PM »

Thanks TomC.


Here a my respond to some other board on Yahoo:

Whenever there is a drive then tag axle or a tag then drive axle, the effective pivoting point is always on the dual tire drive axle. Namely because the dual tire pressure carries more “load” than the floater tag single tire (per side of vehicle). This is why there will always be tire “scuff” on the ground when turning with tag axles down, with pressure loaded or unloaded. Tire “scuff” is when a wheel is being dragged slightly side ways, scuffing the treads on the surface.

On the J and D and old (G (?) models, the tags can be unloaded and just roll or float along. In this case, the pivoting point is center of the drive axle wherever it may be.

To have a J model MCI with steerable tags is to effectively turn it into an E model; that is the big difference, because some companies do not like to deal with the maintenance of those wheels.


In the case of the PD-4501, even if the drive and tag axle where equally loaded, it was, and still is a very inefficient setup as far traction in turning (unless the dual tire tag axle was steerable). ON THE OTHER HAND, unless you simply had a tandem drive axle (like big rigs of today).

Maybe we should look into this more to see if indeed those two rear axles (on the Scenicruiser) where equally loaded.? Please post some links verifying this. Thanks in advance.
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