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Author Topic: Bus won't start  (Read 7239 times)
Hartley
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2008, 06:01:40 PM »

Ouch!!!! No matter what caused it.....
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2008, 12:35:35 PM »

The #3R piston looks like the skirt on it grenaded just as he was trying to start it back up. Dallas

Dallas,
  What do think caused the piston to explode at crankingt RPM? Leaking injector or ??  Were these his orginal injectors or rebuilt units?  Jack
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Dallas
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2008, 12:52:43 PM »

Thanks for asking Jack,

I kind of misspoke when I posted that..

It actually looks as if the liner was a bad casting, and broke all the way around the liner ports.. when the crank brought the rod down, it ripped the wrist pin bolts out of the wrist pin. When the rod came back up, it took out a chunk of the bottom of the liner and then moved on up to wedge itself under the piston skirt which wedged itself cockeyed against the liner at the top of the stroke. It didn't get far enough to hurt the injector tip or valves as far as I can tell.

This had to have happened at the first turn over after the engine was shut down... the damage done would have stopped the engine in the middle of the road and although the rod is damaged, and I am asking the company for a new one, which is only fair, I would play with it, clean it up and use it in my engine if I needed to. I wouldn't put it in a customer engine because it isn't perfect.

I'll send some pictures of the damage....

The #3R piston looks like the skirt on it grenaded just as he was trying to start it back up. Dallas

Dallas,
  What do think caused the piston to explode at crankingt RPM? Leaking injector or ??  Were these his orginal injectors or rebuilt units?  Jack
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Dallas
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2008, 12:59:48 PM »

More pictures.

If you notice the end of the bolt on the left, it looks like it was pulled from the wrist pin.
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Dallas
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2008, 01:04:16 PM »

The bottom of the liner.. I had to beat the bottom and the top and the piston out a few millimeters at a time, I mostly used a hard wood 1"X1" stick and a hydraulic jack, until I got to the bottom side of the liner.. then I had to beat all of it out by hand with a 1" steel rod and a 3 pound miners hammer.
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2008, 01:22:41 PM »

Dallas, dollar to a donut it was cracked around the ports from shipping,a leaking injector won't cause that and I would check the height of liner to block again we have all been guilty of just checking a few FWIW I use a tea spoon and tap each one checking for cracks (old School)    have a great day
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 01:27:53 PM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
Dallas
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2008, 01:33:20 PM »

On that particular piston, I did check the liner height.. It was off by a bit so we ordered a standard liner insert that brought it to the correct height. The previous insert was a .002 overheight, (I think), I also had 2 liner inserts that were cracked.. whoulda thunk?

Now we get to pay for the parts, and send the bad parts back to PCI where they will take pictures and send to Fed. Mogul, who will determine the cause of the problem.
Dallas

Dallas, dollar to a donut it was cracked around the ports from shipping,a leaking injector won't cause that and I would check the height of liner to block again we have all been guilty of just checking a few    have a great day
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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2008, 08:32:38 AM »

New update:  The replacement parts were finally ordered today.  They should be here in 5-6 days.  Until then Dallas and I are cleaning old gaskets off the oil pan, air compressor,and thermostat housings.  He is forcing me to get my dainty little fingers dirty while cleaning parts. We are expecting a heavy rain here the next day or two so we will be forced to stay inside a bit. We are hoping to find a campground where we can dump our tank which is full and have enough power to run both heaters.  The wind has been blowing so hard here that we barely got up to 70 inside the bus yesterday and that was with the sun shining on us.  I'm a bit of a wimp and would love to be able to turn on the other heater and even plug in the water heater. Washing in cold water is no fun. The folks here are really nice but we know we are in the way since it is harvest time. Hopefully when the parts arrive we will have good weather so we can get Chaz back up and running quickly.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 09:15:08 AM by bubbaqgal » Logged

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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2008, 09:36:19 AM »

If the liner had been cracked, I would expect to discoloration on the broken ends. I think you had a piston failure and the piston bound in the liner and pulled the liner in two.
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2008, 10:17:29 AM »

those failures are hard to figure out what caused it, could a wrist pin seal came lose and the piston seized never know. I have a 471 in a Link Belt dragline that is used around the place and every 3 years like a clock it will pull the #2 liner and I have had this engine re bored, line bored, and counter bores redone and it still happens.problem now is they are making parts that are to close in tolerance for the old 2 stroke  my thinking. good luck Dalllas and have a great day
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larryh
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2008, 07:25:56 AM »

Dallas

Some weird happenings there how many miles did it make after rebuild??

Results will be interesting to hear if they can determine what gave up.

Now you know where the old saying came from S&*&t happens.

Larry H
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2008, 09:05:52 AM »

Larry,

The engine went a total of about 250 miles with no problem.

The engine was sounding great according to the mechanics at the place where he was going to be staying. The only problem had been that there had been a non-shutdown problem due to a nut that was binding on the RH rack rod.

Engine had been running at proper temp and idling after a 40 mile run at 25 psi oil pressure.

I do see some discoloration on the ports at the point where the liner came apart, but have never had one come apart like that so I have nothing to judge by. Also the broken ends are darker in some places than they are in others.

The new parts are suppose to be in Monday and we'll be packaging up the broken pieces to send back to them for analysis.

Believe me, I am as interested in what happened as anyone else... I learned a long time ago, I would rather go slow and take my time than have to go back and do the job again.

Dallas
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larryh
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« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2008, 07:47:22 PM »

Dallas

In my 45 years in the trade I never seen one that bad. Almost look to me that piston pin came out and caught liner thank god did it trying to crank or else at speed another boat anchor. I'll be watching for up date did the quill break with the sudden stop for the blower.

Larry H
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havin' ta walk,
and the love of a good woman.
"This posting was generated using an environmentally friendly, self contained flatulence generator, therefore no fossils or neutrons were harmed in the creation of this posting.


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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2008, 12:43:04 PM »

Thanx for all the help and suggestions guys.
I talked to Federal Mogul and they were going to do their inspection of the parts to see what caused it. From the pictures, I can't imagine what they can tell, but then, they can tell what causes an airplane to crash from a bunch of rubble also.
I understand the parts should be there yesterday or more than likely today (as shipping usually goes  Undecided) So hopefully Dallas will be getting me up and running soon. I'm not sure how long it will take F-M to figure out what caused it, but from what a few different mechanics have told me, the most common denominator seems to be a faulty part.
Dallas is right about it running good. Where I went with it, there were a couple other diesel mechanics there that were familiar with my bus from past years. They said it sounded good to them, too, when I pulled in. I know I was tickled with it. I have only ever driven that diesel engine and was tickled how well it ran up till then. It was pretty tired before the rebuild.
Hopefully Dallas and Cat are doing ok at staying warm! It's rather flat out there and tends to be breezy. Maybe Dallas can get the "Junker" gas heater I gave him fired up to help stay warm.  Smiley
 
Thanx again!
  Chaz
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larryh
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« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2008, 02:36:40 PM »

Hi guys just checking to see if engine back together yet and if anything found outyet.

Talked to a couple of old 2 stroke guys with many years over a century between and it is odd to them also so were betting on a cracked liner or a wrist pin .

Hope all goe's well for you Chaz and don't blame Dallas as s*&t happens beyond our control.

Larry H

ps: warm as hell yet in Q town
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Savvy ponderable:
A cowboy's only afraid of two things:
havin' ta walk,
and the love of a good woman.
"This posting was generated using an environmentally friendly, self contained flatulence generator, therefore no fossils or neutrons were harmed in the creation of this posting.


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